What is Spiritual Ego? Find out Before it’s Too Late!

Transcript generated by AI:

Music: 0:00

I will not be afraid of the shadows in the dark. They will lead the way to the hidden pathways of the heart, To that secret place that is where I find my start.

Elizabeth Winkler: 0:17

Welcome to the Shadow and the Light podcast with internationally renowned meditation teacher, davidji.

davidji: 0:23

And heart healer and psychotherapist Elizabeth Winkler, as we guide you through our unique fusion of ancient wisdom and modern psychology.

Elizabeth Winkler: 0:33

Get ready to awaken your true essence, heal your wounds and transform your shadow into in two.

davidji: 1:02

Hi davidji. Oh, hello there Elizabeth.

Elizabeth Winkler: 1:07

Today I want to talk about spiritual ego.

davidji: 1:10

Oh, yes, do tell.

Elizabeth Winkler: 1:13

So this is really important, I think, because it’s something that you can be very blind to and I actually think it happens to everybody. I’d love to hear if you think that that happens to everyone on the path. But you know, we find ourselves on the spiritual path. Sometimes it feels like we just fall into it, or some people really seek it, and there are a lot of reasons that happens. You may be lost, or you just pick up a book and it speaks to you and you feel called into it. Pick up a book and speaks to you and you feel called into it.

Elizabeth Winkler: 1:48

But the ego the way I talk about the ego, you know it’s really that voice in your head that’s always talking and liking and disliking and wanting and not wanting and all that sort of thing. So it can grasp on you might let go of some of your old egoic tendencies and replace them with spiritual language. This happens all the time. From what I have experienced personally and then what I see with clients, is when you’re just recycling, what you hear, the voice in your head is recycling things that you’ve learned, but it’s not embodied. It just becomes that spiritual ego.

davidji: 2:23

Embodiment is so important to the journey.

Elizabeth Winkler: 2:25

Yes, if somebody is just like you know, it’s all love and light. Someone might say that and that might be great, but if there’s like no, the humanity as we’re still walking the path of awakening, right that it’s not all light, it’s shadow and light, just like this podcast talks about. It’s two different things.

davidji: 2:45

So I often say, like you have one foot in the white light and one foot in the rainbow of of experience oh, I thought you were going to save one light in one foot in the white light and one foot in the mud of darkness, and sure it could be that, but like the rainbow comes from the white light, the white light comes through the prism of the body.

Elizabeth Winkler: 3:06

You could say it like that. And then the rainbow of experience is like I have emotions, I have fears. All of those things happen. I can’t control it, it’s just part of this human experience.

davidji: 3:18

You’re such a beautiful articulator of concepts. Thank you so much for sharing them with me and with our world.

Elizabeth Winkler: 3:31

Oh, you’re so sweet. So here I am. I’ve been on this planet for 50 years now and I’ve learned a lot and I’ve let go of some stuff and I’m still holding on to some things, and that’s just the way it is. And sometimes I don’t even realize I’m holding on to something. When I become awakened to that, I have that white light of awareness is one side of the. You know, that’s your awareness, that’s your more awakened, higher self, I guess you could say. And then the rainbow of experience is that maybe human falling down thing, which isn’t a bad thing. I mean, when we fall down we learn a lot.

Elizabeth Winkler: 3:57

Right, pain is a powerful teacher. So we’re kind of stumbling, sometimes, you know, as we’re walking through, and sometimes we’re gliding through. Sometimes we’re kind of stumbling, sometimes you know as we’re walking through, and sometimes we’re gliding through, sometimes we’re galloping through. But I don’t think that it’s ever done, I don’t think that it’s ever complete. At least that’s my truth and that’s what I see in others. But there are some times when people are like, yeah, I’m enlightened, I’m done with all of that, I don’t have any of those challenges, and it’s hard to relate to that. It feels like an armor. It’s very dangerous. Actually, I think that we all can fall into it. I’m not going to sit here and pretend that I’ve never fallen into that, because I just think it’s the power of our mind and it’s the power of the voice in your head, and that you can go there. But that’s why bringing in the human’s piece is so important, that that’s still a part of our journey. What’s your take on this?

davidji: 4:53

Well, I have studied under many different types of teachers, some self-proclaimed gurus and others who just said I’m here to teach this class or whatever.

davidji: 5:04

We can even go back to the Buddha, who walked the earth 2,600 years ago, not born, enlightened, had to live life and suffer and experience trauma and tried the path of austerity, tried the path of overabundance, and then chose the middle way and ultimately, the Buddha sat under a fig tree for 49 days and that’s where he attained enlightenment, supposedly. And when, ultimately, he met with his friends who had been on this path with him, who had released him from their quest because he accepted a bowl of rice milk from a little girl, and they were all fasting and they were like oh that’s it, we cast you out. So imagine, the Buddha was originally hanging out with a bunch of guys. He was in a gang, a gang of austere people meditating and holding their breath and beating themselves and trying to attain enlightenment, and during a deep fast, he accepted rice milk in his begging bowl from a little girl, and that was it. They cut him off. Ultimately, he reunites with them after he had become enlightened, after these 49 days of meditation.

davidji: 6:15

And they said dude, are you enlightened? And he replied supposedly. I don’t know about that, but I’m awake.

Elizabeth Winkler: 6:26

Exactly.

davidji: 6:28

Exactly Right, that’s it. So when I have met people, people even who are like 30 years old now, but when I met them in their teens, they were like I was born in the womb, enlightened, like all right, whatever my response to myself, oh then you have nothing to teach me, because you haven’t then gone through the suffering and pain and losses and traumas, grief that I have lived. I’m looking for someone who has fallen down, crawled through glass, gotten back up to show me how to do that, not someone who was born floating around and saying, oh, just come on, float with me. There’s so much pressure on anyone on the spiritual journey or who’s trying to help other people on their spiritual journey. They never want to look vulnerable, they want to look enlightened.

Elizabeth Winkler: 7:21

Right, and vulnerability is so important. This is exactly the point, exactly the point the ability to be vulnerable, the ability to look enlightened, right, and vulnerability is so important. This is exactly the point, exactly the point the ability to be vulnerable, the ability to be human, and that might not always be the way that it goes. But there’s this bypassing right, it’s spiritual bypassing. You hear about this a lot, where people are using teachings or tools to bypass the heart. It’s just all mind, and so that’s when I say spiritual ego, that’s really what I’m talking about. That it’s just mind stuff. It’s not embodied, right, and so you’re not allowing yourself to go through the glass.

Elizabeth Winkler: 7:55

That is painful, the feeling I don’t even have words for the kind of feelings that we move through when we’re really moving through the awakening of our heart.

Elizabeth Winkler: 8:05

We awaken in different levels.

Elizabeth Winkler: 8:08

We can awaken to our mind realize I’m not the voice in my head, and then we can awaken at the level of the heart which is moving through all that samskara, which is pain of the past, these etchings in our heart that have defined us, pain of the past, these etchings in our heart that have defined us, and we tend to kind of have these little.

Elizabeth Winkler: 8:28

They’re like vessels of energy that are holding I said shame is secret told all my energy or my evolution.

Elizabeth Winkler: 8:36

It’s stored in those vessels and when they get activated in our heart, we can say no to our heart and then run to my mind and then I go to what my mind tells me to say, and then that can be all egoic, right, or I can stay with my heart, stay with activation. Every activation is an invitation. Breathe with that, allow that vessel whatever that is, don’t know what it is which is scary for people, the heart is like a wilderness, and so we build together trust to be able to walk into that wilderness, to say yes to the heart, to say okay, I’m not quite sure what’s going to be in this wilderness, and breathe, and over time and practice we deepen and widen our capacity to do that and then we allow those feelings that were stored from the past to be seen, to have awareness of them, and then they move on and they move out and they transmute. That’s not bypassing, that’s the deeper work that allows you to really step into your true self.

davidji: 9:44

Right, and I think this needs to come back to like okay, well, what’s the definition of spirituality? And my translation of spirituality is the journey that we all take from our mortal selves, flawed, stumbling, bumbling, hoping we get it right. Flawed, so mortal, From that being sealed in this flesh casing for the span of a lifetime, to our most universal self. And you know what that is? It’s your highest expression, it’s the best you’ve ever been. And if we can keep moving towards that and then take a thimble full, a tweezer full, an eyedropper full of whatever that universal highest expression is, and then bring it back, it’s not a one-way trip, it’s a round trip. Bring it back into our heart. That allows us to level up, and that’s how we become just a little bit better every single day.

davidji: 10:39

So I think that journey that we make from the personal to the universal, back to the personal, elevating a little bit better every single day, so I think that journey that we make from the personal to the universal, back to the personal, elevating a little bit to the universal, bringing it back to the personal, we could say what’s the universal? Our best expression, our most divine self? You pick it, but you know what it is. It’s that time you said the perfect thing at the perfect moment. It’s the time you showed up and comforted someone when they were out of sorts. It’s that moment where you suddenly just felt all of the existence of eternity inside of your heart, so full, so amazed at the beauty and splendor of this life.

Elizabeth Winkler: 11:18

When you’re talking about what’s universal. I think we connect to the universal through our broken. That’s where we connect. It’s in the brokenness. I always talk to people about this that are trying to be in relationships. They want to fall in love and I always say you don’t fall in love with perfection. People fall in love with imperfection because they can relate to it, because everybody’s imperfect. This is everything you’re saying. So when we are honest and authentic which the spiritual ego is not when we’re honest and authentic about our humanity, our brokenness, that’s where the universal lives. It’s within that, it’s within the brokenness lives. It’s within that, it’s within the brokenness, it’s within the human experience that the universal it’s like the I don’t know. I’m seeing it like a dot of light at the center of that and that expands. When we say yes to that and we allow that to happen, we enter the universal.

davidji: 12:18

Does that make sense to you? Oh yes, oh yes. And this you know, you are listening to the Shadow and the Light podcast, so it would be disingenuous for us to even have the belief system it’s all good. It’s all good. Guess what? Some of it is really really good. But everything is not all good. There’s some horrible things happening outside of us and may have happened inside of us. I was just talking to someone two days ago and I said how you doing? And they said not good. My husband died last week and we just stood there. I didn’t know what to say. They were silent and I said could I give you a hug? I don’t have words. And they were like sure, and we just like fell into this hug. I didn’t have like the solution. I didn’t have the. Here are the seven spiritual steps to transcending your grieving over your dead husband. That was a part of your soul for 35 years. It was only that. That’s all I had in the moment.

Elizabeth Winkler: 13:22

And that’s perfect, because the other would have been, like totally trying to fix which is the ego. That would be the spiritual ego move, right yeah, so you were honest and real and human, and then in that, something is born.

davidji: 13:37

You know, we had a very powerful episode in season one. I think perhaps we might’ve even kicked off season one, episode one, with our ego, jedi, just if I explain, defend and insist episode. But this spiritual ego is so, so powerful and important because, just like shadow and light, it’s holding both sides of the equation. It’s holding our most magnificent expression of who we are and it’s also holding our most earth-based real world where our heart has been broken, where we have been mean to other people, where we have been hurt and we have hurt others, where we are striving for some level of validation in so many different moments, in so many different ways. You can transport yourself back to when you were a little kid, in the classroom, maybe in middle school, and the teacher asked the class a question and you were like ooh, ooh, ooh, and you’re raising your hand, ooh, ooh. You just want to, like announce to the world. I know that three plus three equals six. It wasn’t a transcendent truth, but it was something so powerful, it was a learning and we were so innocent at that time, but we all did that Ooh, ooh, ooh, teacher, call on me why. So I could announce to the world I learned something. I learned something. Well now, the things we learn are a lot more complex than three plus three equals six. Now they are. Shall I forgive the person who broke my heart? How do I move forward after loss and grief? How can I forgive myself for steps I’ve taken? How can I be generous to someone who has less than me without me having pity for them but seeing them as an equal to me? We can multiply that by about 10,000 different ways, but it’s all about showing up in our humanness, and our humanness is that sweet combination of divine and flawed. I think really that’s why we felt that the shadow and the light. We didn’t ask ChatGPT to come up with the name for us and we didn’t reach out or Google it. Elizabeth and I have spent so much time in conversation, it almost just naturally came out of our mouths oh, what should we call the podcast? Oh, the Shadow and the Light. It just appeared because, duh, it was so obvious.

davidji: 16:07

And so even Thich Nhat Hanh, the great Vietnamese Buddhist teacher, says there’s just no way you can have ecstasy and bliss without agony. It’s just impossible. If there is no agony, no trauma, no deep, deep pain and suffering, then there’s just no way you can have bliss. You actually need them both. Then he says in a world where everyone is just bliss, he said I don’t even know what that is, because it can’t even exist in a vacuum. There will be some tragedy that has to move into the bliss just so you can say, oh, we’ve moved to this other state.

davidji: 16:50

So I think this concept of the spiritual ego, could we just be humans on this planet, always moving to be a little bit better expression, without having to claim I hit the finish line and oh, by the way, I’ve transcended and oh, that thing that upsets you, that doesn’t mean anything to me. I don’t even know what you’re talking about. It’s all good. You know there’s 35 wars on the planet right now. There’s been 35 wars at least going on every single day since 1994, since I started paying attention to that 35, we’re probably aware of three. That means there’s like 32 others going on that have been going on for years.

Elizabeth Winkler: 17:32

Right, but you’re talking about the war within yourself.

davidji: 17:34

Yes, that’s what the Bhagavad Gita is truly as well. The internal battle. We look at all these other things, it’s the internal struggle battle that we are always having.

Elizabeth Winkler: 17:46

We are always having, and so this goes to non-duality and duality. So ego lives in duality. Good, bad, right, wrong, worthy, not worthy.

davidji: 17:57

Or, as Wayne Dyer said, E-G-O edging God out.

Elizabeth Winkler: 18:01

Right. So that’s if you’re in your ego, if you’re in duality, that’s a, but duality is not reality, it’s non-duality. Non-duality is the truth. So when you’re in that paradox, which is what you’re talking about when you’re holding both ends of the spectrum which is not easy to do, but that’s, you know, ram Dass said we’re all walking each other home. We’re walking each other home to the darkest of the dark, to the lightest of the light within ourselves. And that’s how we become more embodied, more awakened People call it enlightened, whatever more awakened to all of the aspects of the self. So non-duality is, you know, it’s not an easy thing for the mind. The mind can’t do it because the mind doesn’t operate on that. So you can’t be at the level of the mind, you have to be at the level of the body, of the present moment which doesn’t really think it’s spontaneous, right?

davidji: 18:57

This reminds me of the definition of bodhisattva and yes, this was a Steely Down song. Yes, bodhisattva. But a bodhisattva is someone who, at a certain point, is someone who at a certain point, achieves enlightenment and then merges with the cosmic flow, leaves this earth, moves into the next realm, just merges with the cosmos nirvana. But the bodhisattva says yes, I am moving into the land of the bliss, but those people on earth, they’re still suffering there. Let me come back to earth, I won’t go and merge with the cosmos, I won’t live in nirvana, in bliss land. I will come back and help everyone else who is still suffering and struggling. So this is the goddess Tara is a bodhisattva. There are so many bodhisattvas and we would have to ask that question, and I’ll ask that to all of our podcast listeners right now, wrapping the globe. If you suddenly had attained enlightenment and were just about to step into nirvana and merge with the cosmic flow, how many of you would instead decide people are suffering back on earth, let me forestall my and you had to give it up. Then you were going to just give up nirvana forever, and now you’re going to come back here and hang out with us, loser humans forever. And that’s what the Bodhisattva does. The Bodhisattva is so awakened and knows their dharma, their purpose, their duty, and says, yes, now that I have all this inside of me, let me come back and help these other people move from their pain and suffering to the other shore, the shore beyond suffering. And that’s truly what gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate, bodhi swaha is. It doesn’t mean it’s over. Right Gate gate gone, gone, paragate, gone to the other shore, parasamgate, gone completely to the other shore. Bodhi awakening Swaha, make it so.

davidji: 21:10

This is that ancient Buddhist mantra and it’s Tara, and Tara means star, tara means planet, but Tara also means she who ferries. So we’re talking about an actual present moment situation, not something that already happened. When we say gate, gate, para, gate, para sam Bodhisvaha, it’s sort of like announcing Tara, the goddess, please take me from this shore of suffering across the waterway to the other shore, beyond suffering. We’re not acknowledging that it’s already happened and we’re enlightened and we’re done. We’re not acknowledging that it’s already happened and we’re enlightened and we’re done. We’re on the ferry and Tara’s our guide, and so every moment we’re not on the other shore beyond suffering.

davidji: 21:58

Some things we may suffer less, some things we may transcend, but as long as we take our next breath and someone we care about or someone we don’t even know is suffering, we will suffer as well. So it’s a present moment experience, and this concept of spiritual ego sort of like, puts it as like oh no, no, I got to the other side already, it’s all complete, I’m done. Well, if it’s done, clinging, clinging, right, right, exactly, holding on to that. Obviously you didn’t learn that one lesson about attachment. But if you had, Maybe not Right.

davidji: 22:33

I’m holding up Elizabeth’s lemon card. Maybe, maybe not, so this is the important thing it’s a journey, it’s in the present moment, right now. So anyone who says got it is misinformed at best We’ll see, we’ll see.

Elizabeth Winkler: 22:48

At best We’ll see, we’ll see, right, we’ll see, let me step on your toe.

davidji: 22:52

Let’s see how enlightened you are.

Elizabeth Winkler: 22:54

Let’s see what happens. That’s what we should do.

davidji: 22:57

Next time you bump into His Holiness the Dalai Lama, see if you can just like suddenly just step on his toe. My guess he would just start giggling. Yeah, that’s what he does, right? No, just start giggling, no matter what went on. Our engineer, mateo, was telling an amazing story and this really ties so deeply into spiritual ego. Mateo, are you comfortable sharing that story? Yeah, sure.

Speaker 4: 23:18

I feel like everyone’s kind of seen this or heard this on the internet that when the American Pope was first became Pope, through whatever process that was everyone’s freaking out like oh my gosh, he’s an American. I think the chicago cubs claimed him like oh, he’s a cubs fan, like live in their arena or he’s from chicago yeah, in their ballpark he’s like he’s a cubs fan, ends up he’s a white socks fan, which is hilarious.

Speaker 4: 23:42

But uh, everyone’s outside. Yeah, south side. He went to the like oh four world series or whatever it was. People found pictures of him. Frank Thomas Land People found pictures of him like drinking beer, being like a normal guy, and everyone’s kind of freaking out. And it’s weird to see too, because you view this pope as, like this, untouchable figure, right and my pope does shots.

Speaker 4: 24:10

Yeah, exactly, pope does shots. Yeah, exactly, shots, drinks beers and everything. So recently there’s this video of people that went to the vatican city and they brought him a white socks hat and he’s dripped up in all the pope regalia. They bring in this white socks hat, he takes off his pope hat which I assume to be like sacred he takes it off and puts on a white socks hat, then just takes a couple pictures and I was kind of just mind blown by that. I was like, okay, I didn’t even know you were allowed to do that.

Elizabeth Winkler: 24:32

Human, totally human Right. Yeah, I love that.

davidji: 24:36

So, yes, he is probably considered the translator between God and all humans, but the dude definitely does not have a spiritual ego.

Elizabeth Winkler: 24:45

Right.

davidji: 24:46

Beautiful. Let me take my mic back here. Thank you, Mateo. Now it’s time for today’s takeaway Living the light.

Elizabeth Winkler: 24:57

Allow life to just continue to be your teacher, whatever you’re in in the moment, if you can greet it with the yes. I think Tolle says, eckhart Tolle, who wrote the Power of Now and A New Earth. He said what if you met the moment or accepted the moment as if this was exactly what you wanted? So basically, full acceptance, a full yes, a full surrender.

Elizabeth Winkler: 25:21

When you can meet the moment, in that way you unravel those knots that the ego tends to cling to. So the ego is clinging to these knots that create this identity, this self, this who I am. But if you can allow those knots that get you, get tied up in and that activate you or upset you, if you can just say yes to them, so that starts on the inside in your heart, breathe a gentle yes or welcome the energy, allow kindness, and then through that you are unraveling those knots and then they become something else and you can see through the veil of the ego and become something else and you start to become more, and it’s more of a. I don’t really know who I am. I’m discovering who I am and if that still is something I’m attached to or not attached to in each moment. So allow the unfolding to continue to happen in each moment, so powerful.

davidji: 26:21

In the present moment is where everything happens, and so, whatever the teachings are about the past, whatever the teachings are about the future, realistically they have nothing to do with this sacred, precious present moment. And I love that line by Eckhart Tolle this present moment, whatever’s going on right here, accept it as if you had chosen it. It’s very Bruce Lee-esque, the great martial artist and actor and deep, deep philosopher. This is what we have. It’s this moment, right here. Everything 10 minutes ago, we don’t have that anymore. We have this moment. So Bruce Lee’s guidance and Eckhart Tolle’s guidance and Elizabeth and my guidance is you have this moment, work with it.

Elizabeth Winkler: 27:15

Yes.

davidji: 27:16

Work with this sacred, precious present moment, Not against it. Don’t fight this moment. You could resist and resist, and resist and you will achieve and accomplish nothing. You will just be miserable. Or you could embrace this moment and make it your friend, make it your support system and say here I am in the sacred, precious present moment. What shall I do with it?

Elizabeth Winkler: 27:42

Beautiful. How you meet the moment is how life will treat you. You get back what you give in that moment.

davidji: 27:48

Well, hopefully you’ve enjoyed this deep dive into the concept of spiritual ego and we’d love to hear your comments about this, and certainly feel free to post this and share this and comment on Spotify, on YouTube, on Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen to this. Let’s keep raising the vibration and let’s transcend our spiritual ego, step into our power and own our impact From the sweet spot of the universe this is davidji, with my co-host, Elizabeth Winkler, the transmutational alchemist, to the cosmos, the celestial transmuter. We’re grateful that you’re part of this journey with us. Keep meditating out there, keep listening and I would suggest going back to previous seasons. We have gotten such amazing feedback from people listening this season who’ve gone back to previous seasons and are finding so much value because you’re in a different place than when you first listened to it. So check it out. Jamar, please transport us into the celestial garden where we can transcend all of our pain and suffering.

Music: 29:05

Let’s do it, I will not be afraid of the shadows in the dark. They will lead the way to the hidden pathways of the heart and that secret place. That is where I find my start. Ooh, the light is here to remove all my fears and to bring new sight. The light is the time that will go to the deep to take me to new heights.

Music: 29:45

The shadow and the light. There’s no fog and rock bottom. You hold it as you’re on the mend, but don’t rush past this moment. The darkness can become a friend. Love will come by your side and you’ll shine brighter than a million suns A million suns. You went through hell, but now you’re in the light. It is here to remove all your fears and to bring new sight. The light is the light that will go to the deep to take you to the light. The light has come because it loves us. The light has come because it loves us. The light has come to set us free. The light has come to set us free. The shadow comes because it loves us. The shadow comes because it loves us. The shadow comes to set us free. The light is here to remove all our fears and to bring new life. The light is here to remove all our fears and to bring new life. The shadow and the light.