The Power of Vibration with Jamar Rogers

Music: 0:00

I will not be afraid of the shadows in the dark. They will lead the way to the hidden pathways of the heart, To that secret place that is where I find my start.

Elizabeth Winkler: 0:17

Welcome to the Shadow and the Light podcast with internationally renowned meditation teacher davidji.

davidji: 0:23

And heart healer and psychotherapist Elizabeth Winkler, as we guide you through our unique fusion of ancient wisdom and modern psychology.

Elizabeth Winkler: 0:33

Get ready to awaken your true essence.

Elizabeth Winkler: 0:36

Heal your wounds and transform your shadow into in tune. Hi, davidji.

davidji: 1:04

Oh, hello there, Elizabeth. Can you believe it? We’ve gone through this entire season listening to the amazing Jamar Rogers intro us and outro us, and we have him in studio today, and he’s not just here. He’s brought his spiritual advisor, mama D is in the house as well.

Mama D: 1:27

Hey everybody.

Jamar Rogers: 1:29

Hey mom and hello everyone.

davidji: So how exciting is this? I think Elizabeth and I have listened to your song endlessly You’re not sick of it yet? No, not sick of it.

Elizabeth Winkler: 1:39

It’s like so uplifting the light and I can’t tell you how many people tell me it gets stuck in their head. Someone said that to me today. They’re like that song. It just stays with you. All of a sudden it’s just there.

Jamar Rogers: 1:53

Oh well, we like a good earworm.

Elizabeth Winkler: 1:55

Oh yeah.

Jamar Rogers: 1:56

Something’s going to be stuck in your head. It might as well be the light, right? Oh damn, yeah, it’s great, and that song has so many different levels.

davidji: 2:03

This morning, while Elizabeth and I were driving around, she was like I just love that gospel chorus, part of that whole thing, and it’s like out of nowhere. And then suddenly you realize there’s all these different components in there. Your song is so multidimensional and it has so many components and it’s so touching and if you really listen to the words, because it could be one of those songs where you’re like, in fact, when we had a lot of our meetings on the phone, I would say to Jamar I was like, hey, could you tweak this part a little? And he’s like, what part? And I’d be. You know, here I am talking to the creator, the inventor, the songster and the writer going like, you know, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. And so it was what a magnificent collaboration which we didn’t know what. Let’s ask Jamar, because that would be the logical.

Elizabeth Winkler: 2:56

Yeah, let’s talk about the creation of it, because we were creating the logo and actually I spoke to the woman who created our logo, erica Jack, and she’s like you know, you have to have a great song.

davidji: 3:06

Then I called davidji and I said we need a song and you immediately said I said, oh well, one of my Masters of Wisdom and Meditation, certified teachers and one of the most talented people who, like, crushed the voice, he would be the person and I think at that point you were. Like you know, I’ve moved into another phase of my life. Now I gaze at clouds and and you’re not lying, you’re not wrong.

Elizabeth Winkler: 3:39

Do you remember the moment when we reached out to you? I?

Jamar Rogers: 3:42

absolutely do. I was actually surprised, first and foremost because I hadn’t written a song in years and I was like, out of all the people they could have asked, why me? That was my first thought, why me? But then when you explained the concept, I got really, really excited about it and this song poured out of me in 15 minutes. I sat down, got some guitar chords and literally the lyric I will not be afraid. It just like came. I didn’t, I didn’t even write this song, to be quite honest, it just kind of came from the ether.

Jamar Rogers: 4:15

But what you guys don’t know well, maybe you do, davidji is I had given up music. I thought I was done, I thought I was retired, but because of you guys getting me started on that path, I now signed a new record deal. I’ve had two songs come out since then. I have another one coming out next month and I’m a musician again. So thank you for helping me refine my love and my passion. I was sleeping on myself and you guys helped me wake back up to it, so thank you. So the song is just as special to me.

davidji: 4:45

Well, I think it’s a defining moment for all of us, launching this new wave of my life and Elizabeth’s life, and launching this new wave of your life as well. You know you’re already on this journey.

Elizabeth Winkler: 4:58

The teacher training is not for the faint of heart.

davidji: 4:59

So you know that was like 16 weeks of read this and read that and study this and do that and learn this and remember this and all that stuff, and you showed up for it. You showed up and brought it. I believe that was just prep, taking these smaller steps on a new wave of your life, and you’ve been my guest on the Mind Shift. Your story is one of resilience, and resilience isn’t being bulletproof. Resilience is being knocked down by a giant, godlike two-by-four which smacks you so hard to the ground and yet somehow you crawl to your knees, then you crawl to your feet and then you take another step. So you are such a powerful archetype for me of resilience, of coming back emotionally, of coming back physiologically, of coming back health-wise, of coming back spiritually is coming back into this realm of abundance. Of course, you have a new deal. Duh, that was a part of you already. You just forgot it. I just forgot.

Jamar Rogers: 6:02

Thank you for your kind words. I take that to heart. davidji, I do my pleasure.

Mama D: 6:06

My pleasure, davidji. Did you know that the voice coined him the Comeback Kid?

davidji: 6:11

Oh my Really no way.

Elizabeth Winkler: 6:12

I was just thinking the Comeback Kid, that was my nickname throughout the season they called me the Comeback Kid.

Jamar Rogers: 6:17

Yeah, wow.

davidji: 6:19

Amazing. Oh, by the way, we sort of like forgot that our listeners were there. We got so sucked into this conversation. We want this conversation to be one about vibration. We have not had a guest on here and yet we have opened every single show and ended every single episode by listening to Jamar’s words and music and that whole vibe.

davidji: 6:40

And some of you don’t listen to the full end of the song. You’re like, all right, they’ve stopped talking, and there’s that guy Click. Other people they listen to the intro of Jamar and then they hear my voice and they go oh, there’s that guy Click. And so we never know why you’re coming here. And Elizabeth has her own viral devotee group always pouring through. So it’s such a beautiful conversion of all these energies. But you can’t listen to the Shadow and the Light podcast without having just a little bit of Jamar inside of you. That’s one of the components. So even if you didn’t really vibe with that song on listen one, we know you’re hooked.

davidji: 7:22

And so we figured let’s talk about vibration, let’s talk about the beauty of mantra. You know, mantra M-A-N, mind, t-r-a vehicle or instrument, these mind vehicles, these mind instruments that can connect us to the stillness and silence that rests within and in that moment there can be an uplifting. In that moment there can be a change of heart or a change of mind, a true transformation. That’s where our expansion comes from and that’s where we move from shadow into light. But it’s because we’ve been willing to hold up the mirror and shine a light on the shadow, and we’ve all been in that space, we all are in that space. It’s not like, oh, shadow free, then we’re just all light. Jamar, one of the things that I noticed that in your early comeback was you suddenly coming up with all these mantra chanting mantras. I would pop on Instagram and there you were chanting mantra. When did that happen and what was speaking to you?

Jamar Rogers: 8:20

Well, I didn’t do any mantra work until I took your class. I’m not shamelessly plugging your class, but I didn’t understand the importance of mantra until I took that. For me, as a former overthinker and a former control enthusiast, I find that mantra brings me back into the present moment. If I find myself overthinking, I can repeat especially my birth star mantra that you gave me. I can repeat that to myself and it literally brings me back into my body. It brings me back into the present moment and in this present moment we’re well taken care of.

Jamar Rogers: 8:56

It’s when we start becoming consumed with regrets from the past or becoming obsessed about how we can fix the future. That’s what raises the cortisol levels, right. That’s what makes us feel a little crazy, and every time I find myself getting caught in that narrative, in that loop, I can bring myself back. That’s the beauty of a practice, right, bringing yourself back over and over again. As Pema Trojan calls. That’s unconditional self-friendship, when you’re able to bring yourself back over and over and over again. So for me, mantra has always just been a way so that my mental health is good y’all. I wish I had a super spiritual woo-woo reason to give you. But from a very practical mental health standpoint. Mantra keeps me sane in the moment, and it also reminds me of what’s truly important, which is being here right now.

Elizabeth Winkler: 9:43

Yeah, in another episode I was saying duality is not reality and the mind is dual. So the mind is dual good, bad, right, wrong. That’s a real, not a fun place to live in. The duality and mantra allows us to transcend Tra is transcend right. So transcend our personal self so that we can fall into the universal self which is in the present moment, and that’s how I feel.

Elizabeth Winkler: 10:14

Your music, the song that you wrote it does that. It brings that. I mean, I’m always amazed by musicians because you have this opportunity to use your voice and words and frequency. You create a frequency. People don’t even know what’s happening. They’re like listening to your song and there’s this vibration, this frequency, and it’s lifting them up in the frequency of love or whatever it is you’re radiating. It’s a transmission, right, it’s a transmission and I feel that completely with you. Are you aware of that when you’re singing with others and things like that?

Jamar Rogers: 10:51

Now I will be. No, I know that singing just makes me feel better, and so I’ve been under the impression that if it makes me feel better, then it must make people feel good to hear it. Mom, we were just literally talking about this on the way up here, about how, like when you’re singing a certain thing and you’re stuck in a I was just about explore other stories. Let’s tell some different stories and what it means. I call myself a sugar baby because the universe is my sugar daddy. I don’t care what anybody else says For me. I walk around with that belief and I embody that, and so I want to share that through my vibration, through my music. Like you are loved, no matter what you’ve done, no matter what you’re going to do, you are loved. You are infinitely supported, you are valuable, you are special.

davidji: 11:50

So if people feel that while I’m singing that, then mission accomplished, and there have been times in your life, as there are times in all of our lives, where you’re not feeling any of that, absolutely not. Oh, my goodness, that’s how you can sing it.

Elizabeth Winkler: 12:03

That’s the beauty of the duality piece, right.

Jamar Rogers: 12:05

That’s it, it isn’t reality.

Elizabeth Winkler: 12:06

But we don’t know up without down, we don’t know darkness without light, but they’re one thing. So we aren’t one or the other, it’s both.

Jamar Rogers: 12:15

Absolutely. And to me, being a sugar baby doesn’t mean or, like you said, being resilient, doesn’t mean that problems aren’t going to come. It just means I know how to handle them. I have the support necessary. I have the support in place that’s going to be there Whatever. Whatever comes my way, I got this.

Elizabeth Winkler: 12:31

But I think you’re also not only the sugar baby, you’re also the sugar daddy, Because when you’re singing, so you’re talking about that but then you become the universal consciousness to others.

Jamar Rogers: 12:45

It turns around.

Mama D: 12:45

That’s good Elizabeth.

Jamar Rogers: 12:45

That’s really true. I quoted you the other day too girl. That’s good, elizabeth, that’s really good. I quoted you the other day too girl.

Mama D: 12:48

I did. It really goes back to the conversation Jamar and I had in the car. Everything has energy, everything our thoughts, our words, our actions. So whatever vibration you are supporting at that time, that’s what is going to transcend, that’s what’s going to come out. So, jamar, literally he was saying saying I haven’t put any content out and I’m trying to decide do I push myself and make myself put that content out, because I need to do it and you put it out? Then you’re going to get back what you put out Low vibes.

Mama D: 13:33

You’re not going to get the views, because you know his videos go viral, right, you may get a thousand views and opposed to 50,000 views. But if you do it under the inspiration, that vibe that you have, you’re coming from a place of something to offer, then of course it’s going to be successful. So you made a good point, davidji. Everybody’s not always feeling it, we’re not always high vibe. That’s when you turn on the Jamar Rogers music, the davidji’s meditation, whatever else that you have to offer. That’s when you turn on something that’s going to help lift those vibes, right, unless you want to wallow and there are times that we wallow and it’s okay to be human, but how long do you give yourself permission to wallow? How long do you want to stay low vibing? And then what tools do you use to get out to raise those vibes?

davidji: 14:28

Right. I often say everyone needs to visit the land of hurts and wounds once in a while, but nobody needs to live there. Rent, don’t buy. And with interest rates so high you’d be crazy to buy anyway. You should just rent no matter what.

Elizabeth Winkler: 14:42

But the way out is the wound, is the way.

Jamar Rogers: 14:44

That’s what I said. That’s what I quoted the other day, elizabeth, so that’s it.

Elizabeth Winkler: 14:52

I mean you got to go in. You can’t avoid, you can’t resist. If you resist, you’re building a wall, a city around the wound which is now owning you right, and you are being run by that. So if you go into it, then you get through it and guess what? You’re gifted with the wisdom.

Jamar Rogers: 15:06

You don’t have to add this part to the podcast, but, elizabeth, I just have to. I shouted you out I’m doing this brand partnership with Amazon and I was talking about my meditation teacher. But I was also telling them. They were like so how did you get to this place? I said the wound is the way and I was like I have this teacher named Elizabeth Winkler. She’s always talking about you cannot get to where you need to go until you first address the wound, until you face it, and not only face it, embrace it. Embrace it, make it a friend of yours.

Elizabeth Winkler: 15:33

Yes, it is a friend. It is a friend.

davidji: 15:36

This is an important thing. What you mentioned, danielle, this is the secret. Sometimes we need the tool to help us turn things around. Those tools that we have. They’re not going to do the heavy lifting, but they’re the pattern interrupt, they’re the break in the action. Those tools that we have can be the things that allow us to go from everything sucks and I hate everything and I’m worthless to. Oh. Maybe there’s a moment here where that’s not true, and Elizabeth and I talked about that all the time, with what if it wasn’t true? Or turn things on their head. What if it were the opposite? But there are these little things Mantras can act as these tools. Taking a breath can act as these tools so they can stop the moment, they can give you that moment of pattern interrupt. But then there needs to be a certain code that’s embedded in you that you live by a certain type of flow of a river that you can just like it’s flowing that way. Let me just move with the current, fighting against the current all this time, but I need a piece of wood or something for me to hold onto as I move with the current, because if I just jump in and I don’t have anything to help me float. I’d probably just drown. So I don’t know, it’s months ago, months ago, but you guys were in the car and you were coming up with these. You know, we’ve all heard of affirmations, right?

davidji: 16:57

Louise Hay, the divine goddess Louise Hay. She’s the one who really, you know, put out to the world. First of all. Here’s a woman who was denied from every single publishing house that ever existed. So what did she do? Created her own. Love her. You know her book. You Can Heal your. You Can Heal your Life, you Can Heal your Life. And it was that little pamphlet. And people were like what are you talking about? This is a pamphlet and it’s gibberish. And she was like all right, fine, I’ll do it on my own. Meanwhile becomes like the largest publisher of self-help and spirituality books on the planet. She’s the one who originally started the Hay Rides through parts of San Diego to acknowledge AIDS and to raise money. It was her when it was not popular. Now, of course, it’s all performative. She was authentic, she was true, she really made a difference and created a fund, which is still in place right now, to help those with AIDS and with HIV. How powerful. And of course, you know, now you live. She’s my patron saint.

Jamar Rogers: 17:52

Right, right Now you live in that sweet spot right.

davidji: 17:57

But you guys are in the car and you were having this car seat karaoke. This was, you know, jamar and his mama and they were doing something. It was so fun and I was like, oh, they should do more. And then, of course, like a few days later, we’re like part two, we’re back. So what was this that you were sparking out here? Ask formations right mama.

Mama D: 18:20

Ask formations.

Jamar Rogers: 18:20

Yeah.

davidji: 18:21

So affirmations are typically.

Jamar Rogers: 18:23

It’s just affirming something great in your life, or affirming something that you’d like to see, and ask formations actually turns on a different part of your brain. It helps you find the answer.

Mama D: 18:34

Right mom. Yeah, this is originated. Teach people that study under.

Jamar Rogers: 18:39

Neville Goddard.

Mama D: 18:41

The law of assumption. That’s where the ask formations come. So when you’re asking yourself a question now, you’re giving your subconscious permission to find the answer and opposed to you asking how, how, how, how, why, why am I so blessed? And now your subconscious is looking for all the reasons to show you why you’re blessed.

Jamar Rogers: 19:02

Why am I so beautiful?

Mama D: 19:03

Why am I so phenomenal?

Jamar Rogers: 19:05

Why is everything always working out for me?

Mama D: 19:07

Why, everywhere I go, I’m celebrated. Why am I so healthy? Why am I so phenomenal? Why is everything?

Jamar Rogers: 19:08

always working out for me. Why, everywhere I go, I’m celebrating. Why am I so healthy?

Mama D: 19:10

Why am I so? I said phenomenal creative.

Jamar Rogers: 19:15

So my mom and I, we work out together and this is what we do in the car. We literally. That wasn’t performative. We actually decided to turn on the camera to an everyday conversation that we actually have. That’s great. We’re constantly lifting each other’s vibes, yeah.

davidji: 19:30

Yeah, so beautiful, that’s just so great. But you had obviously had so much fun doing it that you were like let’s do it again. Yeah, let’s do it again.

Jamar Rogers: 19:39

Yep, and I find that, like so many times I’m always in the past I would ask myself the wrong questions. Why am I so hard to love? Why In the past I would ask myself the wrong questions. Why am I so hard to love? Why am I such a problem? I find that asking questions like why am I so easy to love just feels better. It just feels better and so many of our why?

davidji: 19:58

where the answer is, sucks are just made up. Why do I never win the lottery? Why doesn’t everyone who wins the lottery? They’re holding up their winning ticket and they go. I never win the lottery as they’re holding the winning ticket, this thing never works. Or my car never gets me from here to there. Guess what, we’re there. The car actually did take us there. All these types of things. This suddenly asks us to like let me suspend the BS. Part of my constant no, no, no. And so, jamar, I do want to put you on the spot a little bit. Maybe you could just hum a few lines of Sugar Baby.

davidji: 20:35

Maybe you could sing some of your favorite mantras. Because, for those of you who, know Jamar for his inspiration and Mama D for all of her teachings. It may spark you to go. Didn’t he make it to the eighth round, wasn’t he like CeeLo’s?

Mama D: 20:52

protege. Let me just interject davidji. He’s used to being put on the spot by his mother. Whenever we had company when he was younger, I would always make sure he had three songs to sing for us. We had a little microphone and I said okay, it’s time for Jamar to perform, and we’re talking from seven years old on up, so take it away, son.

Jamar Rogers: 21:14

I love that. I certainly didn’t warm up today, but I do have a mantra. I actually just introduced it to my friends last week. I went over their house. I have a group of friends. We meditate together weekly. I was like why don’t we chant today? So it’s Om Namo Narayanaya and it goes.

Jamar Rogers: 21:34

Om Namo Narayanaya, om Namo Narayanaya, om Namo Narayanaya, om Namo Narayanaya.

Jamar Rogers: 22:13

And so I like to do that when I’m driving. I instantly just feel calm, I feel at peace, and I try to do that 108 times, but I do it along with the recording. I don’t keep count.

davidji: 22:24

What does that mean? So you have it on a loop 108 times. It’s on inside timer.

Jamar Rogers: 22:32

There’s a teacher on inside timer. She sure does have it 108 times. And it means that you’re basically I don’t know the direct translation in Sanskrit, but the idea, the vibration behind it is the ultimate surrender to the divine plan. Behind it is the ultimate surrender to the divine plan. It is basically surrendering to something greater than yourself and understanding that you are a part of this beautiful tapestry and that I’m not the tapestry. I’m a part of the tapestry. And it’s saying how can I show up in a way that blesses the entire tapestry?

Elizabeth Winkler: 23:02

I have it as-.

Jamar Rogers: 23:03

Nada Yanaya.

Elizabeth Winkler: 23:04

Yeah, the divine mother of the universe. I surrender to the divine mother of the universe the you that is connected to everything.

Jamar Rogers: 23:11

Yeah, everything is a tapestry. I really have been leaning into surrendering to the Divine Mother. In the Western world we apply like a fatherhood to the Spirit, but I really have been just loving the nurturing and the care and compassion that comes with surrendering to the divine mother.

Mama D: 23:32

I love that. Now, does that mean we don’t get a little bit of sugar baby?

Jamar Rogers: 23:36

Well, actually a mantra that I learned from davidji in my class. I put in my sugar baby song and that’s Om Ratam Nama.

davidji: 23:43

Yeah.

Jamar Rogers: 23:44

Yeah, I’m exploring with putting mantra in pop music and what does that look like, what does that feel like? Just to kind of like bring mantra to a wider audience. Was that my invitation to sing it?

Jamar Rogers: 23:55

Please Help it that I’m loved so damn much. Sugar babies always get what they want. Oh my God, oh my God. It’s a win. How I see it all before it begins, how the end is never truly the end. Sugar baby on your lips. Om Ratam Namaya, om Ratam Namaya, om Ratam Namaya, please don’t take your hands off me now. Isn’t it beautiful?

davidji: 24:32

Love that. So, for those of you who don’t know, ritam is the rhythm of our heartbeat. With the rhythm of everything in existence. We flow with grace and ease.

Jamar Rogers: 24:54

We are in the zone that’s why I wrote this song, because to me, being a sugar baby doesn’t mean oh, I just get everything that I want. It’s not just a gimme gimme gimme. It’s I’m aligned. And when I’m aligned I just walk through open doors. I, I just walk through open doors. I don’t have to knock on them, I don’t have to push on them, they just open to me because I’m flowing with the natural rhythm of the universe.

Mama D: 25:14

So yeah, Can we add to that?

Jamar Rogers: 25:17

Yeah.

Mama D: 25:17

Let’s talk about you being a sugar baby. You’re going to New York next week and it’s all because of Because I decided to flow with the rhythm of the universe.

Jamar Rogers: 25:29

I quit my job last summer. davidji, you know I heard your voice very loudly in my ears Don’t quit your day job until you have something lined up. And I kind of had something lined up. But we’re talking about vibration and energy. The way I was budgeting my energy beforehand for this nine to five. I had no energy left over for creative pursuits afterward and I wanted to be a full-time creative.

Jamar Rogers: 25:55

I knew that office work might be good for some other people. I’m a creative and so working in an office the nine to five just wasn’t working for me. I quit. And because I decided to pour all of my energy into creating, I joined this TikTok program, which got me a job with an ad agency in LA, which led to this amazing brand partnership, which has led to getting paid to create full time. And that’s because I decided to pour my energy into that. And the biggest lesson I’ve learned is no matter what you pour your energy into, whether positive or negative, it’s going to flourish. So might as well pour it and channel it into things that I want to see flourish, as opposed to things that I don’t.

Mama D: 26:38

Yeah, that’s the sugar baby.

davidji: 26:39

We were just having a conversation earlier about which wolf will you feed. Will you feed the good wolf or will you feed the bad wolf? And it’s a choice in every single moment, every moment, and it can be like oh the, oh, poor me wolf, that’s the one I’m going to feed right now. Or it’s like what can I do? And clearly you went in that direction and you trusted. You can’t just trust, you got to lean in. You can’t just lean in, you got to trust also.

Jamar Rogers: 27:08

Yes and trust, and then do the thing when you’re inspired. Do the thing, say the thing, do the thing. Yeah, yeah, I learned that from you, sir, and that’s the secret to meditation too, got to show up and do the thing.

davidji: 27:23

What’s the secret? Show up and do the thing. Show up and do the thing Show up and do the thing.

Elizabeth Winkler: 27:27

Yeah, one thing the song that you wrote for this podcast. The lyrics are incredible. Do you want to go into that at all?

Jamar Rogers: 27:32

Yeah. So I was raised really religious. I left organized religion in 2014. And I had no idea where I was going. I was super aimless. I did not know how to meditate. I just started reading Louise Hay. Louise Hay got me there, and then I saw davidji on a 21 day meditation challenge and the first time I ever saw you speak, I just wept, I cried and cried and cried and I was like there’s something about this man. I want what he has for that peace. I want it.

Jamar Rogers: 28:01

Meditating for me was the very first time I actually sat with really challenging emotions. I had never done that before, and so, with sitting with my shadow and becoming friends with my quote unquote demons, as opposed to letting them rule me, that led me to a greater light, a greater ripple, because I was able to sit with the things that I was so shamed about. The shadow and the light for me, is about giving yourself permission to sit with the shame, to sit with the discomfort, to sit with all of those feelings. Sit with the discomfort, to sit with all of those feelings that we deem quote unquote bad, because in sitting with those, you’re able to then extend a hand of compassion to yourself and say but I understand? Or even though they’re there, do you know how far a there there goes? They’re there, like I see you, it’s okay. You come from that place with so much power, with so much understanding, and when you are able to extend that sort of compassion to yourself, you’re then able to give it to the world.

Jamar Rogers: 29:00

I find that I could not give compassion to others until I first afforded it to myself. So that song when I wrote that, is basically saying I will not be afraid of the monsters under my bed. If anything, I’m going to invite them to come on out. Let’s have a party. Let me get to know you by name, because a lot of the time these monsters just want to be acknowledged, they just want to be seen, and once you see them and hold their hands, a lot of times they just dissipate.

Jamar Rogers: 29:24

Or they turn into something else they turn into a career.

Elizabeth Winkler: 29:28

Or an angel.

Jamar Rogers: 29:30

They turn into an angel, and they weren’t a demon, after all. They’ve always been there to help you. So what that song is about for me is saying again, you can’t have one without the other. I can’t experience and enjoy the light until I’m comfortable with myself in the darkness, and I think that in our society we have such an aversion towards the dark or towards feeling quote unquote bad, but every breakdown leads to a breakthrough.

Elizabeth Winkler: 29:56

So amazing. Cause, when you’re talking about this, that’s something I wrote down when I was doing a session with a client years ago and you just basically talked about it. I’m going to show it to you guys and I’ll talk about it as well. I was working with someone’s emotion. It started out as anxiety, so we were doing this deep, basically shadow work. So the person was anxious and what we did, as you said, is we went and we met it. We went and brought our awareness to just noticing, just notice what’s happening, notice the activation of your heart. Every activation is an invitation for you to be free. So we went to fear. I call fear a friend existing as resistance. So we take the hand of fear, the hand of that resistance, and bring back down to my heart.

Elizabeth Winkler: 30:40

This person I was working with had a lot of anxiety. So it started as anxiety and then, as we stayed with it, it shifted and below that I wrote it down because it was so amazing it became sadness. I was like what’s happening now? She said there’s some sadness here. We said we hung out with that. Then it changed and it became disappointment. We hung out with. It became shame, shame’s at the bottom. We hung out with shame for a while, and then you know what was on the other side of that Peace, and so these dark spaces, the wounds, whatever they may be, they’re our tunnel to the light. They are our tunnel to the peace that we are. So you just were expressing that, but I wanted to share that because it was sitting right here.

Jamar Rogers: 31:26

I love that, elizabeth. Also, from the very first moment you came and taught a class, I just felt an instant. I need to know her, I want to learn from her. So thank you for affirming me in that way. Yes, but I quote the wound is the way all the time. I also quote your other ones. I can handle this.

Elizabeth Winkler: 31:45

Yes, well, that keeps us with the activation, rather than going to the mind which is going to be like oh no, I can’t handle this.

Jamar Rogers: 31:52

Right, I can handle this. Where is the love and forgiveness? Yes, it’s the one I use very frequently. Yes, and there’s a third one. I can see your little coasters.

Elizabeth Winkler: 32:00

Maybe, maybe not.

Jamar Rogers: 32:01

Maybe, maybe not.

Elizabeth Winkler: 32:03

Keeps you in the question mark rather than the duality.

Jamar Rogers: 32:06

Everything sucks, maybe, maybe not.

Elizabeth Winkler: 32:08

Right Staying open.

Jamar Rogers: 32:10

Yeah, curious Beginner’s mine. Yeah, so yeah, that’s all I just wanted to give you your flowers, girl.

davidji: 32:16

Thank you. We see this in Joseph Campbell’s Hero’s Journey, and so a lot of times we are looking at something as a monster. You see that in Beauty and the Beast and Shrek and the Marvel Universe. Pick your monster, pick your being who looks so unlookable that you don’t even want to go there. And then suddenly there’s magnificence inside of them. But we never got past that first layer of veneer. So even the monsters under our bed, we’ve associated them with this thing. It’s not until we turn on the light and look under the bed and go, oh, they’re slippers. Where suddenly we realize, oh, those are slippers I can put on right now to help me walk outside and do something. Each one of these is a portal, is a doorway to that next step. But sometimes it’s too intense and that’s what’s holding us back. It’s in the valley that we gain the strength for the next launch. Remember, I went through a phase where I pulled back the bow to launch into this thing, because when we’re at the top, we’re like here I am, I have arrived where I’m supposed to be, and we don’t realize, okay, another pullback of the bow right now, let’s see what that looks like. And this is how we continue to learn and continue to grow.

davidji: 33:27

And Pema Chodron talks about that Buddhist, rinpoche, who every day walked from his house to the temple to pray, and on the path was this barking dog that was chained up and salivating and baring its teeth and scaring the heck out of him because he was so afraid of dogs and he would try to walk as far away from the dog as possible, but that was his path, couldn’t go any other route. Kept doing it and doing it and doing it, and then one day he was a little less scared and then a little less scared. And then one day he was a little less scared and then a little less scared. And then one day the dog didn’t even bark because it recognized him and familiarity.

davidji: 34:02

Suddenly now I’m not afraid at all and then at a certain point he actually shifted to oh, he had compassion for this chained up dog which on day one and day 50, was a monster, on day one and day 50 was a monster and on day 200 was a being that he ultimately had feelings for and kindness. Same dog, same dog, same fear, same same everything. But sometimes you can’t get to the next thing without going through some of the angst or the heartache or the heartbreak. Elizabeth and I always talk about no mud, no lotus. Sometimes you have to actually crawl through the brambles and that’s what machetes are made for to hack away at that stuff which otherwise looks unpassable.

Jamar Rogers: 34:51

That’s so, man. I love that. I’ve never heard that story about the dog. I love that, Absolutely. Love that. Maybe I made it up.

davidji: 34:58

I just like attributing all stuff to Rumi and Pema and Ram. Dass and Wayne Dyer.

Jamar Rogers: 35:04

I think that another way that I reframe it for myself, so it doesn’t feel so overwhelming to delve into the dark, is I’m just unlearning, I’m just shedding. I’m shedding an old costume that I used to wear that was not me, and I’m just getting to know the real me. And getting to know the real me is very fascinating, it’s very interesting, and so if I have to do 100 ego deaths to shake off the false me to get to the real me, I think that’s worth it every time.

Mama D: 35:29

And we were talking about the real you, and can you talk about the upcoming shoot that you’re going to have? And it’s all because of.

Jamar Rogers: 35:38

I can’t really do that, but I will say that because I’ve showed up authentically and because I’ve learned to identify when I was masking, I’ve attracted a lot of great opportunities into my life, including new love, new job opportunities. Because I was willing to show up as my full self, I didn’t even know I was not showing up as my full self. I was showing up as the palpable self that the world could swallow, that I thought the world would swallow, but it’s only by sitting with yourself daily and saying, hey, do I really believe this? Do I really think this anymore? Is this really me? And being willing to release those parts that are not me, that I’m able to show up as myself.

davidji: 36:23

And showing up as myself has just yielded so many great results, and so we can’t talk about that amazing thing that just happened to you. But let’s get real. You know it’s a lot of competition out there. It’s rare that someone who doesn’t believe in themselves is going to attract a new believer. It would be really unlikely. When we have really close friends, when we have our mama in the house, when we have our deep soulmates who we’re connected with, they see the best of us, they see the most magnificent expression of ourselves it’s unquestionable and they are consistently in our front row and rooting for us. When you’re out there battling in the rest of the world, you either bring that understanding to the world so people can agree with you. But to ask the man, whoever that is, but to ask the man whoever that is, or whatever that external thing is, to ask that entity to have a belief that’s bigger than your belief, is virtually it’s untenable, very, very unlikely. When there’s 10 people right next to you who believe in themselves more than you believe in you. What are we attracted to? We’re attracted to to confidence, like Peaches, the Buddha Princess. Have you ever seen a princess sachet like that? Maybe Beyonce comes a little bit close to that, but realistically, other than that, it’s the Buddha Princess, because she is unshakable. That’s who you have been.

davidji: 37:52

But sometimes we need to. Let me wrap myself in the little blanket here and let me cocoon myself. No butterfly without the cocoon, you know. But you know how the butterfly works, right, it’s a worm. And then at a certain point that caterpillar says you know what I’m ready to transform. Now the caterpillar does not have any butterfly cells. So the caterpillar suddenly this is unbelievable goes into this little pupa phase, gets its Afghan blanket, wraps itself up, and then, of course, we know the roomy line when I let go of who I am, I become who I might be. The caterpillar liquefies itself and begins to eat its own nutritive soup. Wow. And from that bizarre release and ingestion are born what’s known as imaginal cells. That’s good, imaginal cells. And as those imaginal cells are fueled by this nutritive soup, that worm morphs into and grows these magnificent wings.

davidji: 39:11

And you can’t peel that chrysalis open one millisecond too early or you destroy it all. That’s why you have the patience to wait until your mud settles and the water is clear. Can you remain on moving till the right action arises by itself? That involves trust, perseverance.

davidji: 39:27

Those are the components, and again this comes down to the answer to the question who am I? Who am I? Who am I? Which is why we need to ask that question every single morning as the kickoff process for our meditation, before we go into stillness and silence, because that is you establishing your dialogue with the thing that’s bigger than you, whether that’s the universe, whether that’s San Diego County for you, whether that’s your mother, whether that’s the label Pick your deity in that context. But that’s where the shift occurs Every single day, asking the question who am I? And sometimes I’ll go who am I when I’m at my best, because I want to remind myself. I want to remind myself. It’s like your ask formations, just a little bit, I’m not the person who went to bed last night. Formations, just a little bit, I’m not the person who went to bed last night. I’m not.

Elizabeth Winkler: 40:21

I’m close, I’m close, but I’m the next expression of that. Well, we’re all a river, life is a river. You’re a river. You’re a river we have five rivers in here right now.

Elizabeth Winkler: 40:27

Okay, so each one of us is a river and you can’t step in the same river twice. And so this whole thing you’re expressing, jamar, about not knowing, the not knowing of the present moment, the uncertainty of the present moment. You know, I have this sign. I’m pretty sure I have no idea. That not only applies to life, but it applies to ourselves, to the question who am I? It’s not about getting an answer, it’s about discovering that in each moment and as we’re sitting here, we don’t have a script we’re discovering, we’re listening, we’re discovering, we’re collaborating together in this creative moment and when we’re available, when we’re in the prism self not in the prism, you know I say you get out of the prison of the mind which is, oh, I am Elizabeth, I am a podcast co-host, I am a therapist, whatever right All these labels get out of that.

Elizabeth Winkler: 41:21

What if I let that go and I just fall into the prism. You know, one foot in the white light of awareness of the universe, whatever that is, and then the other foot is in the rainbow of experience and that’s constantly flowing and changing and we’re all in it. And it actually becomes so fun when I’m sitting with clients. I’m like I get to see who I am today Because things just come in and I’m like, okay, that’s interesting, but it’s collaborative, it’s the universe, it’s the whole and the flute. We become that channel. So I always see it like we’re all a facet in the diamond of the total self and so the more clear that we can be of being who we are arms up or surrendering, saying yes to life, whatever that may be, the more that we can be in that prism and express it, and then we’re all an expression of the total self. But so many of us feel like I got to compare and be more like him or more like her, and that steals the joy and the magnificence of who you are.

Jamar Rogers: 42:29

It’s really good.

Mama D: 42:30

Another thing you could to piggyback off of that. I love this expression Don’t confuse your who with your do. Who you are is not what you do. Just like you said, you’re a therapist, you’re Elizabeth. Those are the things. Those are titles, right, but that’s not labels, but that’s not who you are. And so I think that while we’re staying in that prism, we can always constantly challenge ourselves with are we locking ourselves in this box of what I do or what’s expected of me, or am I going to explore who I really am? And that is sitting with ourselves, celebrating ourselves. Sometimes we don’t take the time to celebrate. We’re on to the next journey, the next journey. No, sit and celebrate what you have accomplished, who you are. I am love, I am light. These are things that we don’t have to earn. It’s who we are right. It’s not our due. So, anyway, I guess the thing that came alive to me when you mentioned that I’ve got a little thing for you on that.

Elizabeth Winkler: 43:37

So we call it moving from role to soul. Oh, so out of our roles. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s just another one of the magnificent.

davidji: 43:47

Elizabeth Winkler’s mic drop lines Elizabeth-isms and the thing is, you know, she’ll just like say it so casually and suddenly it’s like oh, you just transformed.

davidji: 43:56

That’s so good, you just transformed 50,000 people in like less than a second and a half and you’re like, oh yeah, moving on. That reminds me of this. You know Wayne Dyer. One of his books was on the New York Times bestseller list. For like 13 consecutive weeks it was number one. And on week 14, something happened. And Wayne, of course you know, the Sunday comes and he opens up the New York Times bestseller list and the book’s not on there. And he runs over to his wife and he’s like honey, honey, I’ve fallen off the New York Times bestseller list. And his wife goes the book did Wayne, not you?

davidji: 44:32

So, real though right and doesn’t mean doesn’t hurt just as much. It’s like wait, my song was number one, now it’s number whatever, but we get so attached. But I do want to talk of just a little bit about the concept of the brahma viharas in this episode. The brahma viharas, uh, the divine abodes, and the ancient teachings tell us we should live in these four divine abodes, and the first one is unconditional loving kindness, metta. And the second one is karuna, compassion. And the third one is and this is a toughie for us mudita, which is empathetic joy can I feel so lifted up by others, wins, without saying I want that, or why? Why them, not me, when we all have spent some amount of time in that? But I’m worthy and being overlooked.

Elizabeth Winkler: 45:38

Yeah, I was thinking of that because it’s like well, he fell off. But who came in, you know, on that list of the New York times bestseller like, who can we sell? You were talking about celebrating yourself and celebrating others. Who, who who’s? You know? Wayne’s book was there for 13 weeks and then who came in? Empathetic joy?

davidji: 45:57

Yeah, Empathetic joy. It’s the opposite of schadenfreude. Right, you know that German word schadenfreude, which means harm joy, which is like oh, you dumped me six months ago and your next boyfriend or girlfriend was a bit crazy. What a shame. How unfortunate. Oh, I got fired and you replaced me by someone and their project blew up. Oops, we all have that schadenfreude, even if we root for our team in sports, right, we’re rooting.

davidji: 46:31

The other team, you know, throws an interception or misses the field goal. You’re watching tennis. You want the person on the other side to miss the thing. Or, in soccer, give up the goal. So we all have it. A lot of people go oh no, don’t know what you’re talking about. I never harm joy on anyone, but we all. It’s a natural emotion and I think that mudita is like when you told me oh, you’ve got things happening that we can’t even talk about. This sounds like serious, like CIA stuff. This is like black ops, ghost protocol stuff. That just made my heart sing. I was like, oh my God, there’s stuff, exciting stuff we can’t even talk about. I love it. I love it. It’s one of my favorite things in all existence. Everybody in here is smiling and feeling so lifted up because we’re all like in your glow. It’s like, oh my God, jamar, you just took this room and took it. I feel like we’re in the penthouse someplace.

Mama D: 47:28

Wait before you change subjects. What’s the?

davidji: 47:29

fourth one, oh, the fourth, brahma Vihara, which in Chinese they’re referred to as the four immeasurables, and Thich Nhat Hanh calls these living in the kingdom of God Brahmavihara, which in Chinese they’re referred to as the four immeasurables right, and Thich Nhat Hanh calls these living in the kingdom of God, but I call them the divine abodes. So Metta, loving kindness, karuna, compassion, mudita, empathetic joy, and Upeka, upeka, empathetic joy. And upekha, upekha, u-p-e-k-k-h-a. Upekha, which means it’s Elizabeth’s one of her favorite words of all time.

davidji: 48:04

Equanimity, evenness of keel being proportionate, stuff comes in. We don’t get knocked off course by fame or dishonor. By fame or dishonor, our wins or our losses, we stay. That even thread throughout life Doesn’t mean we don’t enjoy, we celebrate and we do whatever. But if you get euphoric every time you take a bite of something, you’re like, oh my God, this is the greatest piece of tofu I’ve ever had in my entire life, guess what? The drop down is pretty hard when you could just go hmm, that’s pretty good. Equanimity is just us being measured man Living life with appreciation for all and knowing that, as Elizabeth said, we’re a river we’re flowing through, whereas Hafiz say I’m simply a hole in the flute through which the Christ breath flows. You’re not Christ, you’re not the breath, you’re not even the flute through which the Christ breath flows. You’re not Christ. You’re not the breath, you’re not even the flute, you’re just the whole. We’re conduits of love, conduits of abundance, conduits of energy, conduits of healing.

Elizabeth Winkler: 49:04

Allow yourself to be that yes.

davidji: 49:07

Yeah, that’s great allowing.

Elizabeth Winkler: 49:09

Yeah, you know, got to get out of the way.

davidji: 49:11

Yeah Well, Jamar, we could talk for the next nine years and never really even finish any kind of thread. But we’re introducing in our next season a little feature at the end of our episodes. It’s sort of like today’s takeaway or living the light.

Elizabeth Winkler: 49:29

Living the light.

Elizabeth Winkler: 49:32

Yes, yes, yes.

Elizabeth Winkler: 49:39

Hey, do you like?

davidji: 49:40

the way I was tweaking.

Elizabeth Winkler: 49:41

That always finishes my sentence right, I was tweaking that line of hers and that line of yours, you know, to that good, to that point, okay, we might have to use that for next season.

davidji: 49:48

And I’m saying living the life that’s so great, that’s good, it’s so perfect. So, not to put you on the final spot of final spots, but rather than doing our recorded version of this, maybe you can end the episode by singing Shadow in the Light taking us out of here. Talk about putting so much pressure on him. Clearly he’s got a, he’s got a cold, he’s some poppin lozenges every 15 seconds. We forced him to sing mantras, we forced him to do ask formations.

Mama D: 50:28

He is the great, the amazing your mother always put you on the spot.

Jamar Rogers: 50:33

I’m just wondering yes, I am so glad, Mama. Thank you for today. I will not be afraid of the shadows in the dark. They will lead the way to the hidden pathways of the heart in that secret place. That is where I find my start. The light is here to remove all my fears and to bring new life. Bring new life, oh yeah, oh damn.

Mama D: 51:14

I just want to encourage every parent of an adult child. Jamar and I did not always have this great relationship that we have now. So if you’re going through any turbulent times with your adult child, take a step back, apologize, even if you don’t feel you’ve done anything wrong. I’m talking to the parents now. Realize, even if you don’t feel you’ve done anything wrong I’m talking to the parents now and watch that adult child come back to you, because that’s exactly what I had to do.

Mama D: 51:43

I’ve encouraged Jamar ever since he was little, but also, while I encouraged him because I was so stuck in the religion that we were in, I shoved a lot of beliefs down his throat and it pushed him away. So, although I wanted him to come back, I realized that something needed to change and that something was me. So I know I have not gone through davidji’s meditation course yet and I said yet, but I am putting a plug in because Jamar’s life totally changed during those 16 weeks. How long is the course and when? When he’s not joking when he said he couldn’t sit. He couldn’t sit because his thoughts and ADHD and everything, and so I literally noticed a transformation.

Mama D: 52:31

Every meditation that he took in your course, every time and then he would recite all the things that he learned in your course every time, and then he would recite all the things that he learned and it’s definitely from you and I said I need this course, I need davidji in my life. So I’m here to say, as a parent, thank you, davidji, thank you, elizabeth, for helping my son find his power. And then please be encouraged every parent that’s listening right now that your relationship with your adult children can definitely change if you will allow yourself to change and go ahead and enroll yourself in davidji’s course.

Jamar Rogers: 53:13

Here here.

davidji: 53:15

Whoa, I love that. That was an unsolicited testimonial everybody.

Jamar Rogers: 53:22

It’s true, though. It’s true, and davidji, you always said in your class don’t worry about changing the world, you start with changing yourself. You can’t change the world until you change yourself.

Jamar Rogers: 53:30

I will not be afraid of the shadows in the dark, of the shadows in the dark. They will lead the way To the hidden pathways of the heart, in that secret place. That is where I find my start. The light Is here to remove all my fears and to bring new sight. The light is here to remove all my fears and to bring new sight. The light is the time that will go to the deep, to take me to new heights.

Jamar Rogers: 54:11

The shadow and the light. There’s no fog and rock bottom. You hold it as you’re on the mend, but don’t rush past this moment. The darkness can become a friend. Love will come by your side and you’ll shine brighter than a million suns A million suns. You went through hell, but now you’re in the light. It is here to remove all your fears and to bring new sight. The light is a valuable gold in the deep to take you to new heights. The shadow and the light has come because of love. The light has come because of love. The light has come because it loves us. The light has come to set us free. The shadow comes because it loves us. The shadow comes to set us free. The light is here to remove all our fears and to bring new life. The light is the light that will go to the deep, to take us to new heights. The shadow and the light.