Episode 8: Are you seeking enLIGHTenment? Start here!

Music: 0:02

The light is here to remove our tears and to bring you light, oh light. The light is here to remove the deep, to take us to new heights. The shadow and the light.

Elizabeth Winkler: 0:24

Hi, I’m Elizabeth Winkler and today I am here with davidji. We are on the podcast the Shadow and the Light. Today we’re going to be discussing one of my favorite subjects spirituality. davidji.

davidji: 0:41

Oh yes, spirituality, one of the great topics to dive deep into. There’s so many ways of defining it, and so I invite you right now to think about your definition of spirituality or spirit. If we think about this concept of the soul, you may already be turning off this podcast because you’re like, oh no, I don’t do spirit, I don’t do spirituality. But I believe that everybody on this planet, all eight billion of us right now, is on a spiritual journey. Some of us are a little more aware of it, some of us are a little less aware of it, but everyone is moving towards their best expression. And that is my definition of spirituality. I see it as human and mortal, struggling, stumbling, bumbling, crawling through this life, making mistakes, making misspeaks, making missteps. And then there’s this best version of you. It’s perfect, it’s whole, it’s pure, always says the right thing, always does the right thing. Hashtag now that perfect in every single moment.

davidji: 1:48

And spirituality is the journey that we make from our own mortal, flawed self in every moment to our best, most universal, highest expression. But it’s not a one way journey. Upon reaching our best expression, we take back into this life a tweezerful of your unconditioned self, an eyedropper full of stillness, tenuous amount of a thimble of pure whole consciousness, our best expression. And then we take it back, we pour it into us, we breathe it in and ideally it informs us, ideally it awakens us, ideally it sparks us with greater insights and deeper understandings. That’s spirituality. That’s my definition. What’s your definition, Elizabeth?

Elizabeth Winkler: 2:44

As I’m listening to you, I’m just drawn in. For me, it’s all about connecting in, closing my eyes and noticing what’s present, noticing my mind, noticing my heart, noticing my body, my breath, and then allowing myself to notice what’s noticing, so being in that space of awareness rather than caught by all the movement, the form, whatever that may be, which we’re always doing. And as you were speaking, it just brought me right there, right to that seat, the seat of the soul. You could call it the untethered self, the higher self. It’s like the light moving into a prism. The light is moving in and creating a rainbow, and I think that we are all part of that.

Elizabeth Winkler: 3:44

We all are a facet on that huge jewel of the total self and, depending on how clear that facet is, our expression is a result of that. So, whether we’re in a dark space or we are in a clear, open, allowing space, we can allow that spirit to move and flow through us. So it’s a journey. As you said, ram Dass, we’re all walking each other home. I look at that quote as something that brings me back. All the ways in which I fall, people allow me, or situations, experiences, bring me back to that wholeness, walking me home to that total self.

davidji: 4:30

So if you’re listening to this, you can tell we’re fans of Gary Zucoff, michael Singer, ram Dass we would call these spiritual teachers, but all of them would agree that we have the ability in every moment to get still and silenced. So just listen to this, take a long, slow, deep breath in and ever so gently, let that go Again. Long, slow, deep breath in, breathe right into your heart and release and, in this moment, invite the vibration. Get this vibration into your heart and journey to the center of your heart and feel yourself slowing down. There’s nowhere else to be, there’s nothing else to do except to be right here, right now, in this sacred, precious present moment, and feel that stillness inside of you, feel that silence at the end of the bowl. And now take a long, slow, deep breath in and ever so gently, let that go. And when it feels comfortable, you can ever so gently open your eyes, open your heart. Welcome back. My name is davidji. I’m here with Elizabeth Winkler and we are diving deep into spirituality.

Elizabeth Winkler: 7:33

I felt like that took me right to that. I am space. That’s what spirituality is all about letting go of anything other than that. I am space, not I am Elizabeth, I am a woman, I am a therapist, I am on a podcast, I am meditation teacher no, I just am. And so when we can be in that space of the breath, that gone space at the end of the breath, that still point, you get to experience that unity that there’s really nothing to say.

davidji: 8:08

Yeah, so goodbye everyone. Thanks for stopping by. On the Shadow and the Light, the beauty of this conversation is that it’s so profound that you could just smile and nod, as we are doing towards each other, or you can really dive deep, even more deeply into it, and on this podcast, where we explore what heals us, what sustains us and what transforms us, of course we take it deeper. That would make the most sense. And so, Elizabeth, maybe you could talk a little bit.

davidji: 8:46

As you know, Elizabeth is a therapist who speaks to literally hundreds of people every single week, diving deep into their healing modalities, and she is this gifted alchemist who can help people transform from the inside out. I’m sure there’s so many people who come to you and they’re on a spiritual journey and they talk about their partners being on the journey or not on the journey, or my partner’s not spiritual enough, or I know I meditate, but they don’t do this or maybe you could talk about just the concept of spirituality and your partner, whoever that might be, your partner at work, your partner at home, your partner in life.

Elizabeth Winkler: 9:31

Yeah, what I’ve seen time and time again and I’ve said this in my groups with women. I’ve been on a group of women I worked with and all of these women said I want my partner to come and see you, I want my partner to read these books, I want my partner to understand these different things we’re learning, and I said they don’t need to come. I’ve seen it every time. You transform. The whole thing transforms as you say. You transform yourself, you transform the world. What is it?

davidji: 10:00

you say I got that wrong. We transform the world by transforming ourselves.

Elizabeth Winkler: 10:05

Thank you. We transform the world by transforming ourselves. So these women, they all said I want my husband to come, I want my partner to come. Within months, each one of them came back with a story of how their husband had transformed or their partner had transformed themselves. Because it’s a relationship. So you and I are in a relationship.

Elizabeth Winkler: 10:25

If I change, the whole relationship changes. And if I’m practicing presence and letting go which is what the whole thing is then things that used to activate me or I used to fight with you or justify or explain or defend all of those things, if they’re gone on my end, it’s gone because it takes two to tango, right, so it’s not there anymore. So then not only they have nothing to fight with or move up against there’s no resistance there but also they’re being gifted by the energy that that person has. So people often don’t believe me when I say this. But I’ve seen it, I’ve offered that, and now people come back to me and they’re like, yep, I changed. Everything changes.

Elizabeth Winkler: 11:11

I saw that with my kids when I started meditating every single morning, instead of me telling them to do these practices. They noticed how much I shifted, how I wasn’t as reactive in the morning I didn’t want to yell at my little kids, getting them out of the house on the way to school. It’s hard, and so when we practice these ways of connecting to the deeper presence within, everyone feels it, and it’s kind of like when Harry met Sally I want what she’s having. It’s exactly that. You see it in the example.

davidji: 11:43

This is so important because the theme of this podcast and of these conversations is to really find out what is the healing that we can experience, what is the nourishment we can receive. We call that, what sustains us and how can I transform? I would like to introduce a little fly in the ointment of spirituality, and that’s conflict. So how do we address conflict, how do we massage conflict, how do we shift conflict? Because a lot of times that didn’t happen in your first conversations with these women that you were talking to. It took some time. They had to then live that way. Rather than dragging somebody in to experience the session, they had to sort of like live it.

davidji: 12:29

I remember after I came back from the Hoffman Institute, I was distinctly different. I felt so different. There was a harshness and an anger that had just left me. It had left my entire existence. David Simon said to me yeah, I know that you’ve had some really powerful transformation going on, because he had also been to the Hoffman Institute right after his divorce and he was like I know you’ve gone through this powerful, powerful healing, but I’m still seeing you as the same person. So it’s going to take me several months until I ultimately see you as a different person, even though you’re acting differently, even though you’re not bringing that harshness and anger to these other moments, I’m not receiving your internal transformation so quickly. You’re familiar with this right.

Elizabeth Winkler: 13:22

Oh, I love it. I love it. So how is that for you? I think that that’s great training ground for you to see if you’ve really been able to embody this new way of being, which maybe you haven’t, but that’s okay. It’s like when we’re learning how to walk, we’re learning how to walk. Well, we’re still learning how to walk every day, right? I always say that. So here you come back. You’ve had an awakening, you’ve let go of whatever you let go of.

davidji: 13:45

It’s classic Joseph Campbell’s Heroes journey. Yeah, classic.

Elizabeth Winkler: 13:48

Right, the return. Yeah, so you’re back.

davidji: 13:51

I’m back and checking in with him every three days now. Can you see now, can you see my glow now? And he’s like no. Three days later. Did you notice how I responded? In that moment I could have scorched the village, but instead I was the silent witness. He was like, oh, I missed that. And then, like three days later, you know, did I, did I, did I? At a certain point I just let it go. Five months later he comes up to me and he goes, just want to let you know. I don’t even know when it happened, but yeah, I noticed the shift. Yeah, so perfect.

Elizabeth Winkler: 14:24

Right, when you let go of needing his approval. Right Exactly.

davidji: 14:28

I didn’t need his confirmation ever, but that was the tool that I had been using prior to. So not until I changed that behavior. Right, because I could come back and say, yeah, I don’t have an angry bone in my body anymore, but I’m still carrying the same mechanics, got the same hardware. That’s right there right now, until I actually allow the software to integrate or take it to a higher level. And so I think that there is this period of time that we all have to incubate. It’s like Shavasana at the end of yoga class. It’s like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did the practice, but can I fully surrender now and allow the transformation to work its magic?

Elizabeth Winkler: 15:12

Well, and I feel, with COVID and all of that, we were taken out of the world and then we came back into the world and we it’s like discovering what that’s like. That’s what it reminds me of You’ve transformed or become something new, which we always are. In this example, with Hoffman, you went in with a deliberate direction of something you wanted to work on, but we’re all letting go. Hopefully, some of us are taking on more every day, storing more pain in our lives. Hopefully this podcast can help people not do that. We are always becoming something new and if we can be awake to that and allow not only to see that within ourselves but in each other, your story is perfect, because we’re labeling the people that we interact with, especially the people we interact with every day, as a particular way of being and not getting to enjoy and appreciate the beauty of difference that you are in every single moment.

davidji: 16:07

And a lot of that has to do with we’re so convinced that we know what’s going on. We’re so convinced that we know how people are, who people are, that we wouldn’t even notice the change. They would have to suddenly start singing a song and banging a drum or wearing this bright multicolor outfit to grab our attention. That something’s different. Otherwise we can feel it. I remember when first time I came back from India, I was hanging out with my friend Jodi and she said oh listen, my friend Tammy’s here. And so Tammy walks into the room we’re just hanging out and I’d been back from India five days. Tammy walks up to me and she goes ooh, I can feel that energy fresh and it’s sort of like when you came back from Bhutan. You were in that glow.

davidji: 16:58

I remember we did that Instagram live while you were in Bhutan and totally other side of the planet and when you came back there was distinctly a totally shifted energy. How could there not be? You spent weeks there where all they care about is love and goodness and kindness and all that stuff. At a certain point it becomes you Right. And then back to LA for you, exactly when all of that sweetness and sunrise meditation and all of that high in the mountains. If you haven’t been to Bhutan, it’s one of those countries, I shouldn’t say one of those countries. It’s perhaps the only country that their GNP, their Gross National Product, is actually replaced by what?

Elizabeth Winkler: 17:45

GNH, so the king and the 70s gross national happiness. Said, I will not judge my country on the gross national product. Rather, I judge them on how happy they are. And it’s a real thing. That was what I talked to you about. All of the stray dogs that you see when you’re in India or anywhere in the world, they do not exist there. I would be thousands of feet up hiking and these dogs are well fed and happy. I mean, they do not have a home right.

davidji: 18:18

Even the strays are happy.

Elizabeth Winkler: 18:20

Oh, and they’re well fed. And so after we climbed up to Tiger’s Nest and we came down, we had a picnic in the middle of the field and these dogs come prancing up and men that were with us were beating butonies. They laid out a feast for them and that’s what they do, because everyone is taking care of. And when we talk to them about the homeless situation that we see so much here, they didn’t even understand what is that. What is homeless? Because if someone didn’t have a home, we would take them in.

Elizabeth Winkler: 18:56

So that kind of value of how do you value your life. And so spirituality, to come back to the subject, I think really is that thread. It’s the thread of your life. What is the ripple, to use your word that you want to bring in this life? And when people have a hard time with that, I always say I invite everyone listening to think about this At the end of your life.

Elizabeth Winkler: 19:23

Let’s just consider this isn’t meant to be morbid, but let’s consider that today is that day. Today is the end point. Just reflect for a moment what would have mattered most, what moments, what people, what experiences. And when you think about that, most people think of relationships, but also connect to the energy, because we have a lot of challenges in relationships, but usually it’s like an energy of love or forgiveness, gratitude, joy. Connect to what that energy exchange was that lit you up or that was meaningful in this life of yours, and then that’s your north, I call that your north and so you can bring that north intentionally into your life and I think that’s the power of connecting you to your spirit and I think that’s a spiritual life.

davidji: 20:25

Well, yeah, yeah, here’s an important thing that I would like to say is part of that journey the spiritual journey. We have all these experiences. We go to Bhutan, we meditate Tiger’s Nest, we meditate in the temple. We’re not in Bhutan, we’re hanging out at home and we meditate. You know we do whatever. We walk in nature, we watch a sunset, we see a long lost friend and suddenly our heart lights up. Suddenly we bite into a delicious organic pear, all that juice fills our mouth and we smile. These little celebrations, these little moments.

davidji: 21:07

And so I have been on a journey for many, many years to help us move from having these states of consciousness, states of experience, these states of mind, states of being, and moving us closer to moving us toward having these as embedded traits, because once they’re traits, then they are you. I don’t have to reach for that thing, it’s inside of me. It’s like having a certain language rather than trying to reach for some word that’s eluding you, it’s a word that’s inside of you. That is first nature Spirituality. For me, it’s that journey and for those I share with this is what inspires me to be teaching people to connect to that stillness and silence that rests within. It’s that journey from state to trait and it takes some time. It takes some time. I didn’t have spontaneous transformation at Hoffman. I’d like to think I did, but I had to then come home and practice these cool things in the real world. It’s like this concept of Virtues Virtues need to be tested. We can say, oh, I’m very, very patient, I’m very, very patient. Yeah, well, try concentrating on something and then have someone be tapping you on the shoulder every 15 seconds. Now it’s being tested.

davidji: 22:37

Going back to that David Simon conversation and he was my boss at the time, a friend and teacher, but he was my boss as well I think he wanted me to experience the shift from state to trait and then see if that virtue could be tested. And it was tested. When I Ultimately stopped caring about if he was going to see the difference, right, you know, once I was hey, you know what, I’m feeling pretty good here. That’s when, magically, he appeared out of the woodwork and said hey, now I notice it. And I was like who gives a crap? Right, good for you, I don’t need that anymore, I mean that approval or that validation anymore. So I believe that spirituality for those of us who just wanted to still it down, it’s the journey we make from a most personal self to our most universal self, our most expanded self, and once we get there, we don’t need anyone else to pat us on the back or give us approval. Once we get there, we know.

Elizabeth Winkler: 23:38

It’s the truth of your existence, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, the needing of validation is that often I don’t know that it was in that experience, but it’s that doubt, that doubt in that experience, if you experienced it is a gift, because then you’re really getting to play with. Well, is it, does he see it or not? And then you realize because if he’d given that to you, maybe, maybe, possibly, you wouldn’t have completely embodied it.

davidji: 24:08

Oh, I wouldn’t have. It was too early. It was too early. So let’s ask ourselves right now you, maybe you can write down or just think about is there some Touchstone or mile marker on this journey that you’re currently on that you want to touch or achieve, and In some way it involves someone else, sort of giving you the nod that you’ve attained it? So is this like you’re trying to be a better lover, you’re trying to be a better parent, you’re trying to be a better partner, you’re trying to be a better colleague or boss or employee, or we can go on and on. What is that for you, where you’re so desperately craving that approval or Hoping to get the nod that you’re on the right path and you’re doing the right thing? This is classic.

davidji: 24:59

This goes back, Elizabeth, what we’ve talked about on other episodes of the shadow and the light, when we go back to our childhood, and these are all punishment and reward, kind of training clean your room and you get an M&M. You get to stay up five minutes more. Whatever the thing is in my house it was so counterintuitive. It was brush your teeth and we’ll give you a chocolate twist, marshmallow twist, covered in chocolate. Wait a second. Brushing my teeth and I get a chocolate thing. It speaks to the enlightenment of my parents. But I’m so grateful because now I can’t go to bed unless I eat a piece of chocolate first. So when we think about this we realize you know, you’re on a journey, I’m on a journey, everybody listening to this is on our journey. But we need to make those internal shifts Ourself. So let’s get real clear on that and take some time to really go to that space. Who do I want to become? What am I trying to shift? And then ask yourself that deeper question I why?

Music: 26:35

The light. If it’s not, then we’ll go to the deep to take me to your eyes the shadow and the light. There’s no pocket crop. I don’t. You hold it at your own will, but don’t rush past this moment. The darkness can become a friend, love will come by your side and you shine brighter than a million suns a million suns. You went through hell, but now you’re in the light. It is here to remove all your fears and bring new sight. The light. If it’s not, then we’ll go to the deep to take you to the light. The shadow and the light. There’s no pocket crop. I don’t. The light has come to set us free. The shadow will come to set us free. The light is here to remove all our fears and to bring new light. The light, the light. If I don’t go to the deep to take us to new light, the shadow and the light.