Episode 9: Ready for some ANCESTRAL HEALING? Let’s make Peace with Your Past!

Elizabeth Winkler: 0:19

Welcome to the Shadow and the Light podcast with internationally renowned meditation teacher, davidji.

davidji: 0:26

And heart healer and psychotherapist Elizabeth Winkler, as we guide you through our unique fusion of ancient wisdom and modern psychology.

davidji: 0:35

Get ready to awaken your true essence heal your wounds and transform your shadow into Hi davidji. Oh, hello there, elizabeth, the shadow and the light. And of course, I’m here with Elizabeth Winkler, the transformational alchemical therapist, slash teacher. And we’ve been talking so much this week about the concept of ancestral healing and I’ve got some very, very specific questions for Elizabeth, and I think you might as well, because the beauty of ancestral healing is that we’re talking about everything that’s led up to this moment.

davidji: 1:50

Every single aspect, from the cellular to the psychic to the energetic, of your entire past and your entire existence has led us to this moment. And there may be stuff in your past your past during this lifetime, perhaps your ancestors’ lifetimes, and perhaps even before them that has led to this moment where you’re ready to end the cycle. So a lot of times in ancestral healings we’ll say, well, I had an ancestor or there’s someone in my past that I descend from and, quite honestly, they were a horrible person and I would respond to that by saying, probably something in them that was also pretty good. So could we put our intention on ending the cycle of the non-nourishing behaviors and identifying, perhaps, the nourishing behaviors that they did or the accomplishments that they did and elevate those, because the answer isn’t just cutting off the past. That’s impossible anyway. It’s us being able to assess what will nourish me and nurture me going forward from my past and from my ancestors’ lives, and what’s the thing that I could do without.

Elizabeth Winkler: 3:14

In therapy. We hear about this a lot, maybe just in your immediate family, what your parents did or your grandparents’ patterns in families that you want to break, whether it be like narcissism, codependency, a certain way of attaching or avoiding. I hear a lot of conversations around that about narcissism. I have worked with a lot of individuals who want to break those bonds, as you’re talking of not continuing that with their children as they’re raising children, but it isn’t always that easy because a lot of this is like embedded in our DNA. So, first, becoming aware of what are these tapestries that have been woven over the years and what is the thread that nourishes, and maybe there’s a new way to weave a thread that was more coarse in any way.

davidji: 4:15

Yeah, I mean, there’s so many contributing factors to each one of us. Every one of us is impacted and influenced by nature and nurture. And when we say nature, it’s not just oh, my moment of birth prior to me being introduced to my parents out of the womb. But we’re talking about perhaps, patterns, themes, threads that have run maybe for hundreds and hundreds of years, and we are that strange compendium of the obvious nurture once we come out of the womb. But there are roles even that our parents are playing, which are the recreating or reinforcing of ways that their parents treated them, or a reaction to Totally, right, totally.

davidji: 5:12

We think, oh, my parents were this, but your parents were dynamically in exchange with their ancestors living or dead and making choices and decisions, seeing us through the eyes of their parents, seeing them, that level of reinforcement and reinforcement and reinforcement and reinforcement. It’s like Brundlefly in the movie the Fly with Jeff Goldblum, where he’s like going back and forth, transferring his body back and forth, but a fly gets put in the mix and so at a certain point that fly’s DNA starts blending in with his DNA because he’s transporting himself back and forth. For those of you who’ve never seen this movie, it’s not a spoiler alert, it’s 20 years old and before that it was Vincent Price, like 70 years old. But the premise was he’s trying to identify a way for him to demolecularize himself like they do in Star Trek all the time, so easily. But to demolecularize yourself scatter all your cells to the wind and then transport them into like another space and have all the cells reassemble. And he was doing fine. He had figured out how to do it, but a fly got in the mix. So when all the cells were scattered and then recomposed, he suddenly began growing fly body, fly eyes and fly hands and fly wings. And every time he went back and forth and back and forth it became more embedded, inseparable at a certain point, like pouring a glass of red kombucha into a glass of water. In that moment they’re inseparable. That’s it forever. Yes, you could attempt to filter and distill and do all that, it’s always going to have a red tinge to it, even if it settles down to the bottom.

davidji: 7:05

And we are always going to have, certainly while we’re experiencing that, with our parents or our caregivers. These don’t even have to be necessarily your bloodline parents. These can just be caregivers who are treating you the way they were treated, by people who are treating them, who treated them the way they were treated, and so on and so forth. At a certain point, most of this is unconscious. This is the thing that I want to stress. It’s not like for thousands of years, everyone made these very, very conscious choices to show up as their best version, or their best parent, or their best caregiver. They were guessing. They were guessing and based on their own domestication, based on their own, as Don Miguel Ruiz would say, the contracts and agreements that they made with themselves and with others in their life, just to get by, just to show up and perhaps demonstrate to someone else. Look, mommy, I’m treating my child just the way you did, looking for approval.

davidji: 8:06

So I think we all need a certain amount of ancestral healing. Now you may say what are you talking about? My mother was amazing, yeah, but there’s healing that needs to be done, because perhaps she left you earlier than you anticipated, and so there needs to be healing there. Just like we see God as the creator some of us do we see our parents in that same role. They are the co-creators. Perhaps there’s a little divine aspect to that as well. They are the co-creators, and so we go back to the co-creators and try to make peace with them. But in your instance and in my instance, we both have our fathers. Right now, we don’t have our mothers here to have these conversations with, make peace with the past or ask the deep question or get the nuanced or spontaneous answer. So there’s something left, a little bit, perhaps incomplete, and so the ancestral healing helps us in all these different capacities.

Elizabeth Winkler: 9:09

Well, also that sense of isolation that we feel from loss, you know, is what you’re reminding me of, and that our ancestors, we stand on their shoulders. Oprah talks a lot about her mantra for power I heard her speak of this which was I stand as a thousand, which I think is connected to Maya Angelou’s poem which is called Our Grandmothers. I come as one, I stand as 10,000. And we are not alone.

Elizabeth Winkler: 9:41

And whatever your belief system may be, that there is the unseen world, which is something that I came into connection with through my mother’s death, starting to question those things. And so how in touch are you with the unseen, the spirit realm, your ancestors that you never even knew, that they are embedded in you, embedded in your spirit, or however you look at that, but maybe starting to look at that spirit world as alive and available, maybe just through your dreams, maybe through your meditation. For myself, dream work is the reason I became a therapist, because I had connection with my ancestors, literally there, but also now, through meditation, I’ve been able to come into contact in many ways to other. Maybe you could call it levels of reality, right.

davidji: 10:59

So there are other ways to access support when we let go of just being connected to this physical realm. So many different types of sacred ceremonies that we can have. You know, baptism is a sacred ceremony and sacred fire ceremonies have for thousands of years been used as rising up from the ashes. That first step is acknowledging I am the byproduct of a whole bunch of stuff that came before me. That came before me. So first of course we honor that and have reverence for that, even if that person was a jerk or we interpreted that person as being harsh or evil or abusive or whatever. And then we have to realize in humanity there’s that spectrum of all behaviors, all attitudes, all ways of showing up. We’re all capable of all of those under the certain circumstances. How do we begin the journey of making peace with our parents, their parents, our caregivers, their caregivers? How do we set the ship right Now, I know you’ve done such extensive work in your relationship with your mother in terms of healing that loss and healing that grief.

davidji: 12:15

But here you are on the other side of that, after doing thousands of hours of internal therapy and helping and healing so many others through their thousands of hours of therapy. Do you find yourself complete in that relationship. Are there outstanding conversations you wish you could have? Are there moments where you’re like I’m going to just assume that my mother’s giving me this piece of advice right now. Is there that flicker that if it was in person I’d probably get a better download here, or that would be like the true truth?

Elizabeth Winkler: 12:54

I don’t feel the need for that in-person contact in the way that I used to. I had what I would consider kind of a miracle experience, which actually involved a dream. Working with a dream that healed the heart. I talk a lot about forgiveness with this sort of healing, but it wasn’t that. I actually had a dream about a fear element. I dreamt about a rat the night before. Rats had always captured fear for me.

Elizabeth Winkler: 13:25

I was on a family trip overseas. I was with my ex-husband and my children, told them about the dream, went and sat outside by the water and decided to meditate. And I went into meditation. I relaxed my body because in order for you to be able to work with something that’s maybe activating, you need to be relaxed. So I got into a relaxed state and I invited the rat from the dream to come in, and rats were something I always was afraid of, very scared, disgusted by shadowy. So I totally went into a relaxed state, closed my eyes, invited the rat in and then all of a sudden my body was covered by rats licking, biting, doing all the things you don’t want rats to do and I relaxed. I totally relaxed and as I relaxed they completely shifted from rats to white light. My whole body became a tornado of white light in that moment. It was a true transmutation experience and after that I came out of it and the hole that I had felt in my heart for over 20 years I think it had been like 22, 23 years at that point was gone and I wrote down on a piece of paper. It was filled with love and light and it never, ever came back. It shifted completely and that’s when I changed everything I do as a therapist. I was like, okay, we have to work with energy in our bodies. We can work with a dream, we can work with the activation of someone cutting me off in traffic, whatever it is, just whatever the fear. So if you have ancestral healing or you have some kind of healing, we all do and I still have, obviously healing, we all do. We’re here.

Elizabeth Winkler: 15:20

But in that experience you asked about my mother that feels complete, which I had done all of this work in grief, done all this training and expert in grief and loss. I worked in death and dying for years and it was the story is always you’re never done with grieving. I didn’t have that experience unexpectedly. I totally healed. That it was really surprising and shocking and I’m amazed now would I love for my mother to be here. And shocking and I’m amazed Now, would I love for my mother to be here. Sure, is she in physical form, but she’s not. She’s gone.

Elizabeth Winkler: 15:53

And I told you this story before that I was listening to a meditation. Many, many, many years later. It was guided by you and you said what are you grateful for? And you said let the gratitude list just arise. And what came through? My mother’s death. And I was kind of like, wow, okay.

Elizabeth Winkler: 16:17

And then when I reflected on, I’m like, absolutely, which might sound very strange to someone, why did that come in? Because her death was my initiation into becoming a therapist, into studying death and dying and becoming a conduit of that, facing fears and pain and walking down that path, doing shadow work myself, facing my own shadow, et cetera, and continuing to on a regular basis. It’s never done the work, the healing, to on a regular basis. It’s never done the work, the healing. So I felt that contract you talked about contracts we have with our ancestors I felt that she and I had a contract that was prior to this life that said, yeah, this is our deal, I’m going to go and you’re not and I resisted it. Oh my gosh, did I resist that for so many, many, many years, even though I’d done all this work. I wanted her to still be here and I have so much empathy for that, if that’s where anyone may be.

Elizabeth Winkler: 17:19

But it wasn’t like I went into a therapy session and I healed it. I worked with the energy of a rat in a dream, in a meditation. Now why do I think that worked? I’ll tell you. Rats represented fear and resistance, so I call that your Hoover Dam, this huge amount of energy that’s being held by a dam. And because I was able to relax around that, that became my healing Hoover Dam. So it healed my heart.

Elizabeth Winkler: 17:49

And I shared this story when I was visiting Mickey Singer Michael Singer, the author of Untethered Soul, because all of his teachings are about relax and release, relax and release. And I told him that story after that experience back in 2015, when I decided to get on an airplane after that trip and go and hang out at his temple of the universe so that I could start to fully integrate that type of work into the therapeutic process. That’s when I said mindfulness is the bullet train to freedom, because if you’re working with the activation, whether it’s a rat, traffic or whatever it may be. Your ancestors, the things that we suddenly become aware of from our ancestors that upset us. You are here now. You can become the best version of that ancestry. Right, you have the opportunity to step into power. You have the opportunity to make fear your freedom and pain your power. So I think that’s the opportunity we all have, and there are a multitude of ways to find that healing for yourself.

davidji: 18:57

What is that first step? You and I have very unique relationships with our dead mothers, but I know so many people who suffer. There were words that needed to be said and there were conversations that didn’t happen, and there were moments that something should have happened or transpired or the relationship should have taken a certain turn. So what is that person’s first step in their path?

Elizabeth Winkler: 19:28

That’s part of the process. I felt all of those things. I totally relate to every single one of those thoughts and at a certain point I released that. So something that you could practice or try. If you want to deal with this in a backdoor way, like I did, I didn’t realize it. If you feel like gosh, I’ve done so much work, that’s where I was, I did so much work on it. And when I’ve worked with clients groups, I say what disgusts you? We’ve talked about this in the shadow and the light. Of course it’s about shadows. What animal insect grosses you out? Disgusts you? Use that like the rat. Maybe it’s spiders or maggots. You can put that on your altar, you can light a candle next to it. You can work with it in meditation, like I did. You can relax with it. You can start to honor, revere this energy and see what happens. That’s one thing you could do. What have you done? What’s some steps you’ve taken with your loss and your ancestral healing?

davidji: 20:35

Well, interestingly enough, I never had that relationship with my mother of the loss. So we had a very, very unique kind of relationship. But you know, my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer. As her original diagnosis she had done chemo, she had also had a double mastectomy and then she went into remission and then her doctor said you know, looks like your blood count is really, really down. You need a transfusion, because that’ll change everything, that’ll strengthen you. You’ve gotten weakened from the chemo and all this other stuff. You look a little anemic here. So she got a transfusion and this was right at the beginning of the AIDS epidemic in New York and they weren’t screening blood for AIDS at the time. So she had a transfusion of AIDS blood and just within a couple of weeks she was dead.

davidji: 21:33

So during those couple of weeks was when I had these really really deep psychic encounters with her and my mother was the one who, I think when I came out of the womb she was like, okay, we got the Ouija board. Oh, wow, she was having her palms red. There was always some cooped out seance kind of thing going on. So early in my upbringing this was all considered very, very normal. We were all kooky and I knew it, but it was normal. And so in that very, very short, several weeks where my mother was slowly leaving her physical body, there was just this weird, energetic, deep connection.

davidji: 22:17

One of my favorite movies on the planet is Cloud Atlas Tom Hanks, halle Berry, hugh Grant. It’s three and a half hours long and it spans thousands of years and it’s people who are in these deep relationships and then one of them is going to die or move on or whatever. And who knows, 100 years, 200, 500 years later, they’re together in very, very different roles. They don’t even know it. So when you said you have like this contract with your mother, I think about this concept that perhaps I had a contract with my mother as well in a previous life.

davidji: 22:49

One of us said, oh, I want to spend eternity with you because I love hanging out and being with you. And the other person said, okay, that’ll happen, but not now. Now is not the time for the extra 20 years. Now is not the time, since, since we had our mothers up to our teens perhaps there was like a. We got like a 20 year extension of the previous relationship. Yeah, and then that’s all we got. Who knows, in a previous life. Imagine if you and your mother, you had a different relationship. Who knows? You know, one of you was a grandchild and the other one was a grandfather or whatever. And you said, oh just if, if I could just have 20 more years with you, it would be the most amazing. And then you know one of you dies and then the other person’s born and you get those 20 years like we don’t know, so beyond, yeah, they call it like soul family, soul tribe.

Elizabeth Winkler: 23:52

I actually just connected with this amazing couple in England through the Monroe Institute who I’m doing work with. They do work with them too, and I met them for the first time but I’m like it’s nice to see you again. I’ve missed you. We’ve been in another life together. It was one of those experiences. I feel exactly the same way. You again, I’ve missed you. We’ve been in another life together. It was one of those experiences. I feel exactly the same way about you. I mean, our whole golden thread thing is definitely and we keep finding more and more winks from the universe that continue. Was that another wink?

davidji: 24:31

That’s pretty exciting right.

Elizabeth Winkler: 24:33

Oh my gosh, I guess that was the universe saying wink from the universe. Okay, just in case.

davidji: 24:40

Wait, looking for a sign. We just gave it to you right now because we just had it right now the mothers are here.

Elizabeth Winkler: 24:46

Okay, wow, that was wild. That’s never happened in all the episodes we have recorded. Okay, another wink, there we go. Okay, so cool, everyone witnessed that, yeah. So you know what it made me think of this book.

Elizabeth Winkler: 25:02

When I was in graduate school, they asked us to write a paper on a children’s book that we loved, and the one that I picked is called the Little Soul in the Sun by Neil Donald Walsh, and I love it. It’s about souls on the other side and how they come together before they go into a life, and they’re all like in the light. And one soul says I want to know what it is to forgive. I want to know what forgiveness is, because in the light they only know the light. They don’t know about pain, they don’t know about shadow.

Elizabeth Winkler: 25:38

And so one soul says I want to know what it means to forgive. And so another soul runs up to that soul and says well, I’ll help you, I’ll help you learn how to forgive. Okay, great. So they make a contract, and then it says just remember, you’re going to forget, you’re going to forget that we made this contract Basically that I’m going to hurt you in some form or fashion. I’m going to leave or I’m going to do some kind of betrayal, but that’s the contract we’re making, and so it’s an amazing book.

davidji: 26:11

But wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Maybe forgiving isn’t so important to me.

Elizabeth Winkler: 26:19

Right, right. So the soul to the other soul is saying this is not going to be so easy, but they can’t understand that in the light. And then you know, you come here, we’re here on the earth and we all know how hard it is to forgive at times when someone has hurt us. It is to forgive at times when someone has hurt us and if you’ve been able to move beyond that and we are still all working on that in many ways. But there are some areas in this particular episode. I’m talking about my mother. That’s one area where I felt like I was. I struggled, I struggled, I struggled. I was angry, I felt abandoned. I had so many issues of the ways in which I resisted it, even when I felt like I’d let go, but I got there in a way that I didn’t think I would. So these are incredibly powerful opportunities we have to heal. What has helped you.

davidji: 27:14

Well, there was a particular touchstone that I had with my mother and I don’t know. Shortly before she died she had given me a copy of the Odyssey as a gift with and she inscribed it to me, to my Ulysses. Ulysses is like the classic hero’s journey kind of thing. We know Ulysses headed off to fight a war and then fought a 10-year war and when the war was over classic hero’s journey instead of just coming back then it took him 10 years to get back home. Like when we all go off on a journey of whatever healing, enlightenment adventure there’s the departure, there’s, as Joseph Gemma would say, there’s the initiation and then there’s the return.

davidji: 28:08

So there was almost like a wink-wink between us that life contains all the peaks and valleys, life contains all the trials and tribulations, life contains all the shit and the manna from heaven. You know all the yin and yang of all things. And so I keep that book in rotation. And even in college my final dissertation was on James Joyce’s Ulysses. My final dissertation was on James Joyce’s Ulysses, so that like I’ve woven that story and those people and that aspect, and so through the literature every time I’m really thinking about any hero’s journey, my mom’s with me, so my mother’s here right now and she has been-.

Elizabeth Winkler: 28:54

Well, she just beeped in to the podcast by the way.

davidji: 28:58

So I have always felt that she has been with me in every single moment, all of my most embarrassing situations, all of the moments where I wish no one had seen me, all of my great triumphs in my life, my highlights and my lowlights. Keeping that soul connection has just been, I don’t want to say, effortless. It’s not actually something I think about when I think of my mother. She’s there when I suddenly go like I wonder if, of course and that’s my orientation to the divine also I feel that I’m always in that connection. Communion, communion, communion. Right, it’s not connection, because that implies two separate beings being together. Communion is the oneness. So I believe my mother is embedded here, I believe these words are being co-conjured by my mother and I think it’s important. You know that word, you just used the communion of it. I don’t see it as like I’m here and she’s in another place. I don’t see that. You know, I can imagine that right now, of course, but I see it as a deeper oneness. I see it as yoga, union, communion.

Elizabeth Winkler: 30:10

This couple that I was mentioning who they do this incredible work called Zach’s house. Their son died and we were talking about death and people who struggle with death, and they are in a similar place where they have healed that and they try to help people who’ve lost children, come into contact, have personal experience with their loved one who passed and they said we feel more connected. He’s always with us and, just like you said, your mother’s always with you and I feel that as well. I know that many people here may not feel that, but I think this is an opportunity for maybe people to open the door to that if they would like.

davidji: 30:52

I believe it’s a mindset and it can’t be proven or disproven.

Elizabeth Winkler: 30:57

I believe it’s a mindset and it can’t be proven or disproven. Well, it actually can be. It can be that Zach’s house is proving this through lots of research, but that’s a whole other story. Well, tell a little bit more. Then they’re doing communications with the other side. I guess you could say or spirit, other side. I guess you could say or spirit. They have video, high technical equipment, video sound, so it’s pretty amazing.

davidji: 31:26

Yeah, yeah, that’s way, way beyond my clearance.

davidji: 31:31

Yeah, I’ve never doubted it.

davidji: 31:33

So I would say if someone is grieving the loss of a parent, a child, a sibling, a spouse, an animal, some being that has touched your heart, I would say spend that time that Elizabeth talked about in deep meditation.

davidji: 31:50

Allow nature to remind you of your connection to all things that exist, those things that have existed in the past and exist in the future, and remember the vibration of the mantra Aum, spelled often A-U-M, a-u-m and spelled O-M. Aum contains every vibration that has ever existed and every vibration that will ever exist, and I believe, at the heart of all of our deep relationships there’s that essence of a vibration that encompasses the entire relationship, including the ancestral things that happened before and things that are happening now and into the future. It’s almost like quantum theory and quantum healing, and so maybe there’s some phrase or mantra that you like to use, maybe it’s an expression or an attitude or just an energy that this being in your life who is no longer here in physical form, form that you can reconjure up, because it’s given me great solace and great peace, and I believe that we can, through meditation, through dreaming, through spending time in nature. Through the universal connections in our lives, we can conjure them more deeply into our lives.

Elizabeth Winkler: 33:17

And communicate. Do you ever communicate with?

davidji: 33:23

Well, I didn’t before this conversation.

Elizabeth Winkler: 33:26

Before the dinging in.

davidji: 33:28

Yes, but I have said other times give me a sign for this, give me a sign for that, or I’m thinking about this. What do you think? And there aren’t words. If you’ve read any of my books, you know that I’ve had lots of conversations with people where both mouths are closed and this massive amount of information going back and forth. Perhaps they’re words. They’re definitely sentiments and feelings and expressions.

Elizabeth Winkler: 33:51

So yeah, I think calling it in and communicating is a powerful thing to do, whether you write it in your journal, I like to do it when I’m walking or running. I go on runs and I, kind of, you know, sometimes feel called to communicate, whether it’s my mother or whatever. I think that that’s in finding ways to connect. Why do I think nature is a wonderful way? Because you’re more in your peace state, or at least I am more connected to your true nature. Come, come, like I need to hear you, I need to see you, that sort of thing. I think that that wanting it didn’t make sense to me, that she came to me because she did come to me in many ways later, but she didn’t come to me in those times or I wasn’t available to it. Maybe she was there but I wasn’t available to it. And when I was able to release that, I was more available and could see, hear and feel all those ways in which she was present.

davidji: 35:01

I’ll put you on the spot here. Maybe you could just guide our listeners right now into some type of state to help them become a little more available to moments like this.

Elizabeth Winkler: 35:16

Okay, allow yourself to get into a space, a place where you feel really comfortable. If you’re driving, you can just pause and come back to this or pull over or find a place I personally like to be, you know, in the comfort of my own room or bed or somewhere really cozy and just allow yourself to close your eyes, maybe placing one hand on your heart and maybe one on your belly, finding a resting space for that, feeling the movement of your breath, the aliveness of your current being, the tapestry of our soul, family, runs through you. So there’s a thread and right now, with one hand on your heart and one hand on your belly, you are in touch with the thread that is your current life. Just feel that movement, that feeling of that thread that runs through you. Feeling of that thread that runs through you, allowing the breath to be like a gentle massage upon that thread, allowing any of the coarse, rough edges to just come in and be softened by the breath, by the breath, and allowing yourself just to relax a little bit more, 5% more, allowing the bed or chair to just take you in a bit more. To just take you in a bit more as you breathe into your lungs, inviting any grief or grievance to come forward or to be met, or anything that you’re wanting to release into the thread and allowing that thread to release down what no longer serves this life.

Elizabeth Winkler: 38:04

And if you have anyone or anything that you’re wanting to come into contact with, just visualizing that person or even naming out loud, I give myself permission to be in communion, in contact, available to whatever it may be, whoever it may be, and just allowing yourself to experience any exchange, any feeling, seeing, hearing experience you may have.

Elizabeth Winkler: 39:04

You may have, whether that just be bathing in this energy or asking questions, and, as we release any resistance, also allowing light to fill our being, calling in light as a support.

Elizabeth Winkler: 39:42

And you can always extend this time of conversation by pressing pause and just remembering to always call in light the highest vibrations of light from the top of the head into your being, into your heart, into all the areas of the heart, and to let that thread that runs through you be illuminated by the light. Any fragments of the thread can be healed, honored, learned from being open to the wisdom of this experience as you move on from this time within, taking your time to come into a closure of it, maybe taking your hands in prayer position, just honoring your heart, honoring the experience, honoring the light and honoring the shadow, it’s all one and taking a nice deep breath in and out, releasing that and coming back, feeling your feet, your hands, your heart, the sensation of the body remembering you are a thread in the fabric of the larger tapestry of your ancestral lineage and you get to choose how you weave, moving forward.

davidji: 41:37

Wow, so intense, so intense. So be gentle with yourself and, as Elizabeth suggested, always feel free to pause and stay in this space. This is a way, certainly for us to dance in the shadow and the light of each moment and if you are suffering a loss, make sure that you reach out to somebody. There’s no need ever for you to do anything alone. You’re not alone, and I’d encourage you to stay connected with us, all the various ways that you can be connected to us, whether that’s meditating with us, whether that’s joining our various communities or getting certified as a meditation teacher, or we’re just hanging out here on the shadow and the light. Sometimes we go wide, sometimes we go deep on this podcast, but I think this is one of those where we did both. Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much, elizabeth Deep. My name is davidji and on behalf of my co-host, elizabeth Winkler. My name is davidji and on behalf of my co-host, elizabeth Winkler. You’ve been listening to the Shadow and the Light podcast.

Music: 43:20

We’ll see you on the next episode, in pathways of the heart and that secret place. That is where I find my start. The light Is here to remove all my fears and to bring new signs. The light Is a cloud that will go to the deep to take me to you. The light, the shadow and the light. There’s hope out in bright light. You hold it as you’re holding me, but don’t rush past this moment. The darkness can become a friend. Love will come by your side and you’ll shine brighter than a million suns A million suns. You went through hell, but now you’re in the light. It is here to remove all your fears and to bring new sight.

Music: 44:11

The light, the light. It is not able to go to the deep. The light, the light In the night. It will go to the deep to take you to new heights, to the light, the shadow. And the light has come because it loves us. The light has come because it loves us. The light has come to set us free. The light has come to set us free. The shadow comes because it loves us. The shadow comes because it loves us. The shadow comes because it loves us. The shadow comes to set us free. The light is here to remove all our fears and to bring new life. The light, the light. It’s a light that will go on to the deep, to take us to new heights, to the shadow and the light.